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While it is correct that none of the administrations since 2001 has improved anything in this regard, under Trump things are definitely not becoming better. Tho

While it is correct that none of the administrations since 2001 has improved anything in this regard, under Trump things are definitely not becoming better. Those who are telling us "but only illegal immigrants suffer", are wrong -- everybody is having it much worse, illegal immigrants (who are people too, and most of them are not doing anything wrong), legal immigrants (waiting times and quotas are getting nearly impassable), and American citizens, who have their rights violated. Some of the Americans still think that most of these things are good, they think that all immigration is intrinsically bad for America, and perhaps they voted for Trump because of that. I, of course, do not agree (as an immigrant myself, from Russia to Switzerland), but as American voters, it is up to them to decide, this is a valid point to start the discussion -- as long as the truth is acknowledged, and not hidden behind statements like "it's only about illegal immigrants".

dudul 7y ago
I totally agree and in a way this is exactly my point. Why blur the discussion with a spiel about Trump when we all know this has been going on for a long time. TSA, CBP, Guitmo, etc Trump didn't set up all of these. By constantly blaming the Trump administration, all these articles are doing is 1)lure anti-Trumpist to believe that all we have to do is vote for the other guy to fix it, 2) alienate Trump-supporters who will feel attacked and basically stop reading.
- justaaron 7y ago
  That would be ignoring the very deliberate and massive shift in behaviour from both CBP and Fatherland Security ushered in deliberately and noisily by Trump. It's sufficient to have been an international traveler before Trump and since Trump to bear witness to the night & day difference, as well. It's worse under Trump than even the worst excesses of the Bush Jr. time. It IS politics as this "man" has staked his entire administration upon being mean and harsh and fighting a war with the entire world at once. Spare me.
- jkoudys 7y ago
  I'd say it's symptoms vs cause. America has grown increasingly xenophobic, and as a result you have a POTUS with a base that rallies around him more when he fear-mongers in direct contradiction to easily verified data. Things definitely weren't going swimmingly before Trump, but trying to separate Trump completely and pretend like Obama's border policies were just as bad is also inaccurate.
sokoloff 7y ago
> illegal immigrants (who are people too, and most of them are not doing anything wrong) I'm having a hard time understanding this point. Aren't illegal immigrants by definition doing/have done something wrong by virtue of proper inclusion in that set?
- atemerev 7y ago
  I think that you are confusing "being/doing wrong" and "violating some particular law". Laws can be arbitrary: in some countries, it is e.g. illegal to be gay, or profess some religions, etc.
- jkoudys 7y ago
  Sure, but the choice to include them in that set is what's in question. Someone who crosses the border and makes an asylum claim may have technically made an illegal entry, but their status is under review to determine if they're a refugee or not. Most refugees can't simply make a claim from the country that they're fleeing, because the government that they're running away from isn't going to help them get their documents in order. Plus they're in danger while they're there. They're removing the imminent threat and waiting here while their status is sorted out.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    I am not an expert in the law, but I do not consider someone who has legitimately and properly applied for asylum to be an illegal immigrant (a term which to me [and I believe most others] describes an economic migrant who has failed to follow the established practices for legal immigration).
    - jkoudys 7y ago
      You wouldn't, but many do. That's exactly the problem - borders are always going to be a legal grey area, so many will focus on crossing the border illegally, even if they make an asylum claim after they arrive.

dudul 7y ago

I totally agree and in a way this is exactly my point. Why blur the discussion with a spiel about Trump when we all know this has been going on for a long time. TSA, CBP, Guitmo, etc Trump didn't set up all of these. By constantly blaming the Trump administration, all these articles are doing is 1)lure anti-Trumpist to believe that all we have to do is vote for the other guy to fix it, 2) alienate Trump-supporters who will feel attacked and basically stop reading.

justaaron 7y ago
That would be ignoring the very deliberate and massive shift in behaviour from both CBP and Fatherland Security ushered in deliberately and noisily by Trump. It's sufficient to have been an international traveler before Trump and since Trump to bear witness to the night & day difference, as well. It's worse under Trump than even the worst excesses of the Bush Jr. time. It IS politics as this "man" has staked his entire administration upon being mean and harsh and fighting a war with the entire world at once. Spare me.
jkoudys 7y ago
I'd say it's symptoms vs cause. America has grown increasingly xenophobic, and as a result you have a POTUS with a base that rallies around him more when he fear-mongers in direct contradiction to easily verified data. Things definitely weren't going swimmingly before Trump, but trying to separate Trump completely and pretend like Obama's border policies were just as bad is also inaccurate.

sokoloff 7y ago

> illegal immigrants (who are people too, and most of them are not doing anything wrong) I'm having a hard time understanding this point. Aren't illegal immigrants by definition doing/have done something wrong by virtue of proper inclusion in that set?

atemerev 7y ago
I think that you are confusing "being/doing wrong" and "violating some particular law". Laws can be arbitrary: in some countries, it is e.g. illegal to be gay, or profess some religions, etc.
jkoudys 7y ago
Sure, but the choice to include them in that set is what's in question. Someone who crosses the border and makes an asylum claim may have technically made an illegal entry, but their status is under review to determine if they're a refugee or not. Most refugees can't simply make a claim from the country that they're fleeing, because the government that they're running away from isn't going to help them get their documents in order. Plus they're in danger while they're there. They're removing the imminent threat and waiting here while their status is sorted out.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  I am not an expert in the law, but I do not consider someone who has legitimately and properly applied for asylum to be an illegal immigrant (a term which to me [and I believe most others] describes an economic migrant who has failed to follow the established practices for legal immigration).
  - jkoudys 7y ago
    You wouldn't, but many do. That's exactly the problem - borders are always going to be a legal grey area, so many will focus on crossing the border illegally, even if they make an asylum claim after they arrive.