8 ms·

The Cognitive Profile of People with High-Functioning Autism Spectrum Disorders

91 points by lainon 7y ago

zeristor 7y ago
This seems to be quite a dense paper, I’ve just scrolled through thid study of Iranian children, although the sample size of 30 seems quite low. However since I’m learning statistics this is the first time I’ve noticed the use of the Kolmgorov-Smirnov test in the wild, so I’ll be trying to go through it in more detail to see how K-S is used from a different angle.
- ktaylora 7y ago
  The statistics for this paper are pretty straight forward. The sample size is small, so recovering a significant effect with frequentist hypothesis tests like MANOVA with 30 samples is challenging. However, the authors went to great lengths to filter out subjects with confounding factors. So even though the final sample size is small, it's intentionlly focused on the main effects of the study.
  - thedudeabides5 7y ago
    Ok, so can you say the results? Spent a couple minutes reading and still have no idea what they are trying to say.
    - ktaylora 7y ago
      I think the most interesting conclusion is that ASD (particularly "High Functioning" ASD) may actually be ADHD. Clinicians should do more rigorous testing to differentiate ASD and ADHD in their patients. Also, they add that "High Functioning" may not be a useful label. ASD is ASD. They demonstrate that IQ tests alone aren't that great a tool for comparing intelligence for people with high-functioning ASD vs typically ASD. But that some differences in subjects emerge when you use other measures of intelligence. They add that "subjects with high-functioning ASD showed a good competence in Matrix Reasoning and weaknesses in Comprehension." This means that people with a high-functioning ASD may be better at reasoning through complex spatial problems (like puzzles, mazes, matrix operations and linear algebra, solving rubix cubes :P) than a typical person with ASD. They also note that the prevalence of ADHD symptoms and diagnoses are unusually high in ASD populations (37-85%). You can see the how strongly correlated ADHD symptoms are with ASD in their indices in their Tables 1 & 5 -- look at the negative effect with comprehension that's shared with typical symptoms in people with ASD's in table 5. So, if you are a high functioning Aspie -- you may actually just be ADHD. And in other cultures, your profile may look very different than what is manifested in the West. Maybe shedding that label is important to you. It isn't to me.
      - jaggederest 7y ago
        It might be useful to you to know that your post was dead. I vouched for it, but you might have triggered some screening criteria.
        ktaylora 7y ago
        Thx, mate. I'm a TOR user. Happens all the time.
afpx 7y ago
I’ve not been diagnosed with ASD, but I did have to take parts of the Wechsler a few years ago. My results were lopsided, as this paper describes. My doctor was surprised at how fast I completed the block design and matrix reasoning parts. He said he had never seen them completed so quickly. Yet, my verbal scores were relatively low. I did similarly on the SATs - I perfected the math section but did horribly on the verbal parts. I have challenges processing words. I strain to use them. It feels like I’m translating from one language to another over a couple layers. Then again, I didn't begin speaking until I was 3. So, maybe I missed some developmental stages. But, I often wonder if I have ASD. Reading this paper reminded me of it. Is there any benefit in getting a diagnosis?
- 0815test 7y ago
  Perhaps you simply haven't worked all that much on verbal-related skills, compared to quantitative ones. Have you tried e.g. using Anki to expand your vocabulary?
  - afpx 7y ago
    It’s not the vocab that’s the problem. It’s more like a problem of ‘translating’ an abstract idea into words and vice versa. It’s like there’s an extra few steps that my brain has to do.
    - 0815test 7y ago
      > It’s more like a problem of ‘translating’ an abstract idea into words and vice versa. Yes, this is called verbal fluency - the ability to recall the right words at the right time, so as to produce those words effectively. It is quite distinct from purely receptive vocabulary since that deals with word recognition alone, but it's a highly trainable skill nonetheless.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  > Is there any benefit in getting a diagnosis? Maybe there are "support groups* of like minded people you could get in touch with, at least?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stared 7y ago
Line plots to compare categorical variables? Please don't. (Scatter plot with text labels or bar plots would work so much better!) The only worse way is to use radar plots.
omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
Based on what I've read and personal experience, there seems to be a significant amount of overlap between ASDs, ADHD, OCDs, and bi-polar. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a significant amount of underlying complexity we're missing that ties these disorders together.
- rubinelli 7y ago
  The common characteristic seems to be a deficit in executive functions and cognitive control. Individuals have a lower ability to autoregulate their emotional state, making them less able to deal with frustration, and more vulnerable to compulsive behaviors, addiction, anxiety, and depression.
  - diydsp 7y ago
    i believe this, too. essentially: paying attention to things and trying to make sense of them drives you crazy. the world only has pockets of order. you have to act crazy/stupid in many cases. it's hard to align strategy with situation. society is a mechanism for cataloging these strategies, but demands equal payment. you have to help them to get them to teach you which mode to be in. and they're still wrong often. just knowing this can drive you crazy.

91 points by lainon 7y ago

This seems to be quite a dense paper, I’ve just scrolled through thid study of Iranian children, although the sample size of 30 seems quite low. However since I’m learning statistics this is the first time I’ve noticed the use of the Kolmgorov-Smirnov test in the wild, so I’ll be trying to go through it in more detail to see how K-S is used from a different angle.

ktaylora 7y ago
The statistics for this paper are pretty straight forward. The sample size is small, so recovering a significant effect with frequentist hypothesis tests like MANOVA with 30 samples is challenging. However, the authors went to great lengths to filter out subjects with confounding factors. So even though the final sample size is small, it's intentionlly focused on the main effects of the study.
- thedudeabides5 7y ago
  Ok, so can you say the results? Spent a couple minutes reading and still have no idea what they are trying to say.
  - ktaylora 7y ago
    I think the most interesting conclusion is that ASD (particularly "High Functioning" ASD) may actually be ADHD. Clinicians should do more rigorous testing to differentiate ASD and ADHD in their patients. Also, they add that "High Functioning" may not be a useful label. ASD is ASD. They demonstrate that IQ tests alone aren't that great a tool for comparing intelligence for people with high-functioning ASD vs typically ASD. But that some differences in subjects emerge when you use other measures of intelligence. They add that "subjects with high-functioning ASD showed a good competence in Matrix Reasoning and weaknesses in Comprehension." This means that people with a high-functioning ASD may be better at reasoning through complex spatial problems (like puzzles, mazes, matrix operations and linear algebra, solving rubix cubes :P) than a typical person with ASD. They also note that the prevalence of ADHD symptoms and diagnoses are unusually high in ASD populations (37-85%). You can see the how strongly correlated ADHD symptoms are with ASD in their indices in their Tables 1 & 5 -- look at the negative effect with comprehension that's shared with typical symptoms in people with ASD's in table 5. So, if you are a high functioning Aspie -- you may actually just be ADHD. And in other cultures, your profile may look very different than what is manifested in the West. Maybe shedding that label is important to you. It isn't to me.
    - jaggederest 7y ago
      It might be useful to you to know that your post was dead. I vouched for it, but you might have triggered some screening criteria.
      - ktaylora 7y ago
        Thx, mate. I'm a TOR user. Happens all the time.

afpx 7y ago

I’ve not been diagnosed with ASD, but I did have to take parts of the Wechsler a few years ago. My results were lopsided, as this paper describes. My doctor was surprised at how fast I completed the block design and matrix reasoning parts. He said he had never seen them completed so quickly. Yet, my verbal scores were relatively low. I did similarly on the SATs - I perfected the math section but did horribly on the verbal parts. I have challenges processing words. I strain to use them. It feels like I’m translating from one language to another over a couple layers. Then again, I didn't begin speaking until I was 3. So, maybe I missed some developmental stages. But, I often wonder if I have ASD. Reading this paper reminded me of it. Is there any benefit in getting a diagnosis?

0815test 7y ago
Perhaps you simply haven't worked all that much on verbal-related skills, compared to quantitative ones. Have you tried e.g. using Anki to expand your vocabulary?
- afpx 7y ago
  It’s not the vocab that’s the problem. It’s more like a problem of ‘translating’ an abstract idea into words and vice versa. It’s like there’s an extra few steps that my brain has to do.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    > It’s more like a problem of ‘translating’ an abstract idea into words and vice versa. Yes, this is called verbal fluency - the ability to recall the right words at the right time, so as to produce those words effectively. It is quite distinct from purely receptive vocabulary since that deals with word recognition alone, but it's a highly trainable skill nonetheless.
BurningFrog 7y ago
> Is there any benefit in getting a diagnosis? Maybe there are "support groups* of like minded people you could get in touch with, at least?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stared 7y ago

Line plots to compare categorical variables? Please don't. (Scatter plot with text labels or bar plots would work so much better!) The only worse way is to use radar plots.

omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago

Based on what I've read and personal experience, there seems to be a significant amount of overlap between ASDs, ADHD, OCDs, and bi-polar. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a significant amount of underlying complexity we're missing that ties these disorders together.

rubinelli 7y ago
The common characteristic seems to be a deficit in executive functions and cognitive control. Individuals have a lower ability to autoregulate their emotional state, making them less able to deal with frustration, and more vulnerable to compulsive behaviors, addiction, anxiety, and depression.
- diydsp 7y ago
  i believe this, too. essentially: paying attention to things and trying to make sense of them drives you crazy. the world only has pockets of order. you have to act crazy/stupid in many cases. it's hard to align strategy with situation. society is a mechanism for cataloging these strategies, but demands equal payment. you have to help them to get them to teach you which mode to be in. and they're still wrong often. just knowing this can drive you crazy.