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How did I know his advice would be a variation of 'do what you love'? I've heard it so many times, but am I supposed to quit my job as a developer that support

How did I know his advice would be a variation of 'do what you love'? I've heard it so many times, but am I supposed to quit my job as a developer that supports my wife and two young kids, and do something that I'm really passionate about, like starting a rock band? That's really tough, my wife would probably leave me and we'd have to move out of our nice, safe neighborhood. Also - once you make your passion your ft job it then starts to get annoying. I remember when programming was my passion, and now it's just another job - who's to say the same thing wouldn't happen with filmmaking or music?

moge 16y ago
Having read the full article I noticed that this advise as given specifically in response to a tweet KS got from someone that 'had an opportunity to start over' in his life. also 'being a programmer' is not the same thing as 'being a programmer for something you really want to be apart of'. I was a 'filmmaker' for years and I was MISERABLE working at local industrial film houses then I got a job working on a TV show with a passionate crew and I literally sprang out of bed (at 4am) everyday completely stoked to be going to work. tl;dr context for what you are passionate about is important. A talent/skill/interest isn't a passion; how that talent/skill/interest is applied, is.
steveklabnik 16y ago
> That's really tough, my wife would probably leave me and we'd have to move out of our nice, safe neighborhood. Nobody said being excellent was easy. This also doesn't mean that your choice or his is better.
Ixiaus 16y ago
That's why you figure that shit out before you get the wife and the mortgage. But, either way, you can still do it you just have to do it slowly and in your free time. Making your passion your full time job does not make it annoying!!!! I LOVE WHAT I DO EVEN MORE NOW THAT I WORK FOR MY SELF! When I worked in a cubicle farm like you and cranked out commodity software, I fucking hated programming. Think of a fun idea, doesn't have to be academically innovative, just something useful to people and start cranking on it. I did that. I have a full time job from it now and holy shit do I love it. There are days I work 12 hours, but you know what? I feel awesome afterwards. After a 12 hour day in the office of company x I always needed a beer and bitched about shit for half a day. Sorry for all the french. I just can't stress these points enough - same points Smith is making, really. I don't even make "a lot" of money, just enough to be upper middle class. I love my work, my life feels fulfilling, and I have money to do what I want with it. If you don't have kids, I recommend waiting on that ride - it's tough enough that you have a wife. Hopefully she's a cool chick and will support/help you during transition and well into the wild journey of working for yourself. [EDIT] To clarify the final paragraph: I don't mean to rag on wives/girlfriends (I have a girlfriend), it's just that, if she isn't a cool person and you are emotionally dependent then you lose a certain amount of autonomy and freedom to move around and do things (like leave your job and move into a two bedroom apartment). My girl happily downsized from a house to a two bedroom apartment when we moved to San Diego. It took her a year, but she sold the majority of her junk and we are now much happier (TBH). We also don't share finances (I have a thing against that) so it helped her save some money for other things/experiences as well.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  And you can even find girlfriends who do the opposite: I have no particular desire to move, but mine wants to see the world, so she's pushing me to finally get around to doing that. Everything in life is a tradeoff. You just have to be conscious of the ones you're making.
  - Ixiaus 16y ago
    A good point - awareness of where your center of gravity [in life] is - an important quality to cultivate. RE: girlfriends that are the opposite. I agree, it is very possible but it has been my experience that either foreign or alt chicks are the most open to experiencing new things. To balance that sexist comment, I also realize there is a corollary in mainstream American men as well. BTW, travel (particularly budget backpacking) will change your entire world view; kudos to finding a woman that is into that. I highly recommend India for a few months, on a shoestring and with no itinerary :)
    - mowmowmow 16y ago
      I'd love to do the budget backpacking thing, I'm dying to see Europe. Hopefully when the kids are a couple of years older we can leave them w their grandma and take off to see the world for a few weeks.
      - Ixiaus 16y ago
        You'll probably have to do it with the kids - a few weeks isn't enough to immerse yourself in culture. You'll just end up swimming around in the western bubble. Live an alternative life style with your kids, show them the world isn't a scary place. Hell, move to Europe! Just some ideas.
        js2 16y ago
        Indeed. Meet the Miller family - http://edventureproject.com/wordpress/?page_id=3 http://edventureproject.com/wordpress/?page_id=3 ("We spent a year touring most of Europe and part of North Africa on our bicycles… with all four kids") Or the Vogel family - http://familyonbikes.org/blog/?page_id=10 http://familyonbikes.org/blog/?page_id=10 ("The Vogel family left June 8, 2008 for a 2 1/2 year bicycle trip traversing the Pan-American Highway from Alaska to Argentina.") It can be done.
lovskogen 16y ago
Once you're dependent on something that is not what you love, you'll have hard time breaking out.
arn 16y ago
"and do something that I'm really passionate about, like starting a rock band?" What? This makes no sense. You're doing it wrong. If you were really passionate about playing in a rock band, you would already be filling your time playing in a band, jamming on weekends, playing in your free time. You don't just "go out and start" doing something you are passionate in. If you are passionate about it, you can't stop doing it. What do you do in your free time? You have no hobbies or things that keep you busy or wish you were doing rather being at work?
- mowmowmow 16y ago
  I play music in my free time of course. Jamming on weekends occasionally is much different than abandoning your day job and attempting to support yourself with music.
  - arn 16y ago
    well, baby steps. I started a website during medical school, and it consumed much of my free time until I quit medicine. I didn't quit to start a website, but my website allowed me to quit. Maybe music/show business is different? Forgive my lack of familiarity with the terminology, but you can't form a band, book gigs, do weddings, etc...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Jeong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Jeong <- this guy was a physician while he developing his stand-up, and is now a sit-com actor.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      Girl Talk was a biomedical engineering student until he basically dropped out for music. It's not different, he was catching red-eyes back from shows in order to make it to finals. You just have to want it badly enough.
      - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
        He has a biomedical engineering degree and actually worked a 9-5 day job as an analyst for a few years while playing gigs on weekends. http://stereogum.com/4530/quit_your_day_job_girl_talk/franchises/quit-your-day-job/ http://stereogum.com/4530/quit_your_day_job_girl_talk/franch...
electromagnetic 16y ago
> The secret to a successful life is hardly a secret; it requires you to be self-centered as all fuck, is all. So long as it’s not at the expense of others, make yourself the center of your universe. Making yourself the centre of your own universe will obviously be detrimental to others in your life. Quitting your job and moving your kids to some ghetto slum likely isn't a good idea and would likely be such a distraction in your life that you couldn't focus on yourself if you wanted to. I'm married, I can't simply quit and slum it around Europe because I feel like it. However, I can save up money and take my wife to places in Europe on vacation. It gets me what I want and it'll help my marriage. Perhaps you shouldn't be viewing programming as your day job, but your actually job as your day job. Programming is a skill, your skill isn't your day job, what you're required to do with your skills however is your day job. You could use your skill to program for something you find fun. Help with an open source project, or program a website for a local charity as a good deed or something you'd enjoy doing. I'm skilled with my hands. You put any power tool in my hand and I'll guarantee I could build you what you want. I don't enjoy doing certain jobs, they can feel rather belittling to do sometimes. However, I go home and I think of all the things I could make that I want and I don't find it draining like I would a bad day job. I find it rather invigorating.
- coliveira 16y ago
  > Making yourself the centre of your own universe will obviously be detrimental to others in your life No. It can be challenging at first, but you and them will be much better after the change. Also, if you need money you shouldn't make a sudden change. Nowadays it is easier than ever to start a business in your free time.
  - electromagnetic 16y ago
    I didn't mean the act of being the centre of your own universe, but him transitioning to being the centre of his own would have immediate detrimental effects if he decided to chase something like a bloodhound. Like I said, he should find something to do in his free time that fulfils his transition. If you're dedicated, you'll soon be making money one way or another and can switch to that as your day job. It's inadvisable to anyone who's self-supporting or supporting others to make a drastic change. There's no point trying to self-actualize if you're going to starve in the process, because you'll never get there.
okaramian 16y ago
Sounds like your passion is your family :) Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
- mowmowmow 16y ago
  Oh definitely. I didn't know we were allowed to count that :)
bennesvig 16y ago
You should read about Hugh MacLeod's "Sex & Cash" theory.
- mowmowmow 16y ago
  I just looked him up on GoodReads, I'll definitely check his stuff out. Thanks.

moge 16y ago

Having read the full article I noticed that this advise as given specifically in response to a tweet KS got from someone that 'had an opportunity to start over' in his life. also 'being a programmer' is not the same thing as 'being a programmer for something you really want to be apart of'. I was a 'filmmaker' for years and I was MISERABLE working at local industrial film houses then I got a job working on a TV show with a passionate crew and I literally sprang out of bed (at 4am) everyday completely stoked to be going to work. tl;dr context for what you are passionate about is important. A talent/skill/interest isn't a passion; how that talent/skill/interest is applied, is.

steveklabnik 16y ago

> That's really tough, my wife would probably leave me and we'd have to move out of our nice, safe neighborhood. Nobody said being excellent was easy. This also doesn't mean that your choice or his is better.

Ixiaus 16y ago

That's why you figure that shit out before you get the wife and the mortgage. But, either way, you can still do it you just have to do it slowly and in your free time. Making your passion your full time job does not make it annoying!!!! I LOVE WHAT I DO EVEN MORE NOW THAT I WORK FOR MY SELF! When I worked in a cubicle farm like you and cranked out commodity software, I fucking hated programming. Think of a fun idea, doesn't have to be academically innovative, just something useful to people and start cranking on it. I did that. I have a full time job from it now and holy shit do I love it. There are days I work 12 hours, but you know what? I feel awesome afterwards. After a 12 hour day in the office of company x I always needed a beer and bitched about shit for half a day. Sorry for all the french. I just can't stress these points enough - same points Smith is making, really. I don't even make "a lot" of money, just enough to be upper middle class. I love my work, my life feels fulfilling, and I have money to do what I want with it. If you don't have kids, I recommend waiting on that ride - it's tough enough that you have a wife. Hopefully she's a cool chick and will support/help you during transition and well into the wild journey of working for yourself. [EDIT] To clarify the final paragraph: I don't mean to rag on wives/girlfriends (I have a girlfriend), it's just that, if she isn't a cool person and you are emotionally dependent then you lose a certain amount of autonomy and freedom to move around and do things (like leave your job and move into a two bedroom apartment). My girl happily downsized from a house to a two bedroom apartment when we moved to San Diego. It took her a year, but she sold the majority of her junk and we are now much happier (TBH). We also don't share finances (I have a thing against that) so it helped her save some money for other things/experiences as well.

steveklabnik 16y ago
And you can even find girlfriends who do the opposite: I have no particular desire to move, but mine wants to see the world, so she's pushing me to finally get around to doing that. Everything in life is a tradeoff. You just have to be conscious of the ones you're making.
- Ixiaus 16y ago
  A good point - awareness of where your center of gravity [in life] is - an important quality to cultivate. RE: girlfriends that are the opposite. I agree, it is very possible but it has been my experience that either foreign or alt chicks are the most open to experiencing new things. To balance that sexist comment, I also realize there is a corollary in mainstream American men as well. BTW, travel (particularly budget backpacking) will change your entire world view; kudos to finding a woman that is into that. I highly recommend India for a few months, on a shoestring and with no itinerary :)
  - mowmowmow 16y ago
    I'd love to do the budget backpacking thing, I'm dying to see Europe. Hopefully when the kids are a couple of years older we can leave them w their grandma and take off to see the world for a few weeks.
    - Ixiaus 16y ago
      You'll probably have to do it with the kids - a few weeks isn't enough to immerse yourself in culture. You'll just end up swimming around in the western bubble. Live an alternative life style with your kids, show them the world isn't a scary place. Hell, move to Europe! Just some ideas.
      - js2 16y ago
        Indeed. Meet the Miller family - http://edventureproject.com/wordpress/?page_id=3 http://edventureproject.com/wordpress/?page_id=3 ("We spent a year touring most of Europe and part of North Africa on our bicycles… with all four kids") Or the Vogel family - http://familyonbikes.org/blog/?page_id=10 http://familyonbikes.org/blog/?page_id=10 ("The Vogel family left June 8, 2008 for a 2 1/2 year bicycle trip traversing the Pan-American Highway from Alaska to Argentina.") It can be done.

lovskogen 16y ago

Once you're dependent on something that is not what you love, you'll have hard time breaking out.

arn 16y ago

"and do something that I'm really passionate about, like starting a rock band?" What? This makes no sense. You're doing it wrong. If you were really passionate about playing in a rock band, you would already be filling your time playing in a band, jamming on weekends, playing in your free time. You don't just "go out and start" doing something you are passionate in. If you are passionate about it, you can't stop doing it. What do you do in your free time? You have no hobbies or things that keep you busy or wish you were doing rather being at work?

mowmowmow 16y ago
I play music in my free time of course. Jamming on weekends occasionally is much different than abandoning your day job and attempting to support yourself with music.
- arn 16y ago
  well, baby steps. I started a website during medical school, and it consumed much of my free time until I quit medicine. I didn't quit to start a website, but my website allowed me to quit. Maybe music/show business is different? Forgive my lack of familiarity with the terminology, but you can't form a band, book gigs, do weddings, etc...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Jeong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Jeong <- this guy was a physician while he developing his stand-up, and is now a sit-com actor.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Girl Talk was a biomedical engineering student until he basically dropped out for music. It's not different, he was catching red-eyes back from shows in order to make it to finals. You just have to want it badly enough.
    - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
      He has a biomedical engineering degree and actually worked a 9-5 day job as an analyst for a few years while playing gigs on weekends. http://stereogum.com/4530/quit_your_day_job_girl_talk/franchises/quit-your-day-job/ http://stereogum.com/4530/quit_your_day_job_girl_talk/franch...

electromagnetic 16y ago

> The secret to a successful life is hardly a secret; it requires you to be self-centered as all fuck, is all. So long as it’s not at the expense of others, make yourself the center of your universe. Making yourself the centre of your own universe will obviously be detrimental to others in your life. Quitting your job and moving your kids to some ghetto slum likely isn't a good idea and would likely be such a distraction in your life that you couldn't focus on yourself if you wanted to. I'm married, I can't simply quit and slum it around Europe because I feel like it. However, I can save up money and take my wife to places in Europe on vacation. It gets me what I want and it'll help my marriage. Perhaps you shouldn't be viewing programming as your day job, but your actually job as your day job. Programming is a skill, your skill isn't your day job, what you're required to do with your skills however is your day job. You could use your skill to program for something you find fun. Help with an open source project, or program a website for a local charity as a good deed or something you'd enjoy doing. I'm skilled with my hands. You put any power tool in my hand and I'll guarantee I could build you what you want. I don't enjoy doing certain jobs, they can feel rather belittling to do sometimes. However, I go home and I think of all the things I could make that I want and I don't find it draining like I would a bad day job. I find it rather invigorating.

coliveira 16y ago
> Making yourself the centre of your own universe will obviously be detrimental to others in your life No. It can be challenging at first, but you and them will be much better after the change. Also, if you need money you shouldn't make a sudden change. Nowadays it is easier than ever to start a business in your free time.
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  I didn't mean the act of being the centre of your own universe, but him transitioning to being the centre of his own would have immediate detrimental effects if he decided to chase something like a bloodhound. Like I said, he should find something to do in his free time that fulfils his transition. If you're dedicated, you'll soon be making money one way or another and can switch to that as your day job. It's inadvisable to anyone who's self-supporting or supporting others to make a drastic change. There's no point trying to self-actualize if you're going to starve in the process, because you'll never get there.

okaramian 16y ago

Sounds like your passion is your family :) Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

mowmowmow 16y ago
Oh definitely. I didn't know we were allowed to count that :)

bennesvig 16y ago

You should read about Hugh MacLeod's "Sex & Cash" theory.

mowmowmow 16y ago
I just looked him up on GoodReads, I'll definitely check his stuff out. Thanks.