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Exactly. I choose to believe I can control my own behavior, and that belief undeniably affects my actual behavior. Now some Determinist comes along and says I

Exactly. I choose to believe I can control my own behavior, and that belief undeniably affects my actual behavior. Now some Determinist comes along and says I didn't really make that choice, it was destiny. Well, okay, whatever you say dude; but the fact that I believe it is still in play. I don't see what the value in denying free will is. Fascinating sophomore debate? Yes. Gonna help you survive and thrive on this planet? No.

inflatableDodo 7y ago
I want to know if I was always destined to find the idea of creatures in a supposedly deterministic universe worrying about whether free will exists to be hilariously funny?
- Bakary 7y ago
  So is the paradoxical idea of a person deciding that free will doesn't exist There's also this Bertrand Russell quote: "As against solipsism it is to be said, in the first place, that it is psychologically impossible to believe, and is rejected in fact even by those who mean to accept it. I once received a letter from an eminent logician, Mrs. Christine Ladd-Franklin, saying that she was a solipsist, and was surprised that there were no others. Coming from a logician and a solipsist, her surprise surprised me."
Consultant32452 7y ago
I feel like this is saying you're a Christian because religion is useful regardless of whether it's true. That's cool man, I'm not here to yuck your yum.
- badpun 7y ago
  If we're not equipped to handle and the truth and knowing it could actually destroy us, it's better to live in a lie.
- dasil003 7y ago
  Sure, but all analogies are flawed. Yours is not as offensive to me as you might have hoped because I’m agnostic. But I can also flip it on its head: The problem with religion comes when it’s used as a justification for horrible acts—just like one might use the lack of free will to justify horrible acts.
  - candybar 7y ago
    It seems to me that the idea of free will is used to justify horrible acts as well - the entire concept of retributive justice for instance.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    Sorry, I genuinely wasn't trying to offend you, though I can see why it came off that way. I just meant to convey I'm not on some mission to convince people of anything. If it's helpful or makes people feel good to believe in free will, that's good enough for me. Even if I were 100% sure of there was no robust free will, I wouldn't be interested in changing people's minds.
godelski 7y ago
I agree with this. The question of free will existing or not is not an important question. An interesting one, but at the same time the answer isn't really meaningful. If we find free will exists, well we continue with the way we have been going. If we find that it doesn't, well we don't change anything because we don't have free will. (Honestly I believe there is middle ground to this question. That some people can exert more free will than others but that you can also train this behavior. But that's another discussion. If this is true, I do find this a meaningful answer though)
- badpun 7y ago
  I'm guessing a proof that a free will does not exist could lead to a collapse of civilization, as many people would just not feel accountable and responsible for their lives any more.
  - godelski 7y ago
    Would it? They don't have free will anyway. So is that a cheatcode for death? I doubt it, because that means we'd be programed for survival.
    - badpun 7y ago
      Individuals would survive, but everyone could excuse their own bad behaviour with "I'm not in charge of myself, it's not me who's making this decision to rob/rape/kill etc.", which would lead to decline of society and, eventually, civilization.

inflatableDodo 7y ago

I want to know if I was always destined to find the idea of creatures in a supposedly deterministic universe worrying about whether free will exists to be hilariously funny?

Bakary 7y ago
So is the paradoxical idea of a person deciding that free will doesn't exist There's also this Bertrand Russell quote: "As against solipsism it is to be said, in the first place, that it is psychologically impossible to believe, and is rejected in fact even by those who mean to accept it. I once received a letter from an eminent logician, Mrs. Christine Ladd-Franklin, saying that she was a solipsist, and was surprised that there were no others. Coming from a logician and a solipsist, her surprise surprised me."

Consultant32452 7y ago

I feel like this is saying you're a Christian because religion is useful regardless of whether it's true. That's cool man, I'm not here to yuck your yum.

badpun 7y ago
If we're not equipped to handle and the truth and knowing it could actually destroy us, it's better to live in a lie.
dasil003 7y ago
Sure, but all analogies are flawed. Yours is not as offensive to me as you might have hoped because I’m agnostic. But I can also flip it on its head: The problem with religion comes when it’s used as a justification for horrible acts—just like one might use the lack of free will to justify horrible acts.
- candybar 7y ago
  It seems to me that the idea of free will is used to justify horrible acts as well - the entire concept of retributive justice for instance.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  Sorry, I genuinely wasn't trying to offend you, though I can see why it came off that way. I just meant to convey I'm not on some mission to convince people of anything. If it's helpful or makes people feel good to believe in free will, that's good enough for me. Even if I were 100% sure of there was no robust free will, I wouldn't be interested in changing people's minds.

godelski 7y ago

I agree with this. The question of free will existing or not is not an important question. An interesting one, but at the same time the answer isn't really meaningful. If we find free will exists, well we continue with the way we have been going. If we find that it doesn't, well we don't change anything because we don't have free will. (Honestly I believe there is middle ground to this question. That some people can exert more free will than others but that you can also train this behavior. But that's another discussion. If this is true, I do find this a meaningful answer though)

badpun 7y ago
I'm guessing a proof that a free will does not exist could lead to a collapse of civilization, as many people would just not feel accountable and responsible for their lives any more.
- godelski 7y ago
  Would it? They don't have free will anyway. So is that a cheatcode for death? I doubt it, because that means we'd be programed for survival.
  - badpun 7y ago
    Individuals would survive, but everyone could excuse their own bad behaviour with "I'm not in charge of myself, it's not me who's making this decision to rob/rape/kill etc.", which would lead to decline of society and, eventually, civilization.