5 ms·

Censorship of the internet, any at all, is a problem. As soon as we are filtering in any way shape or form, it will not stop. The Internet is what it is, open/

by madmaze 16y ago

Censorship of the internet, any at all, is a problem. As soon as we are filtering in any way shape or form, it will not stop. The Internet is what it is, open/free/uncensored, and it is no-ones responsibility to censor what is said or shown. If someone would like to "protect" themselves from freedom of speech and freedom of press then it is their own responsibility and no one elses.

joshhart 16y ago
Kiddie porn is OK?
- sp332 16y ago
  Kiddie porn is bad because of mistreatment of kids, duh. By the time it's on the internet, it's way too late to do anything useful about it.
  - AngryParsley 16y ago
    Cannibalism is bad because it involves killing human beings. By the time the human meat is at the supermarket, it's way too late to do anything useful about it.
    - thwarted 16y ago
      And yet despite cannibalism being bad, there are no limits on you talking about eating meat, actually eating meat or owning a grill, which are all unrelated to eating humans.
      - AngryParsley 16y ago
        Of course. I'd even tolerate the sale and consumption of in-vitro human meat. (Computer generated imagery, if you're following the metaphor.)
    - rapala 16y ago
      Most people shopping at the supermarket could not see the difference between human meat and cow meat. Kiddie porn is not that hard to spot. It's interesting how we tie the act of consuming a product to the act of producing it. Sometimes it's more obvious, like when you buy your meat straight from the butcher. But is it as unethical if you buy the meat vacuum packaged from the supermarket? How about possessing kiddie porn, does it make you a child molester?
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        > How about possessing kiddie porn, does it make you a child molester? No, but depending on where you live, you may be a criminal. I think driving kiddie porn consumers further underground will make it harder to find and prosecute the people actually molesting kids: the producers. While I have no sympathy with child-porn consumers and understand they enable the producers and molesters, I don't think they are the problem that demands most attention unless they molest children.
- sorbus 16y ago
  No, of course not. However, it isn't an excuse for censorship. It is an excuse for going after the people producing it, and monitoring those who consume it (in the USA, the FBI is the largest distributor of child porn, with the goal of arresting people who look at it, for instance). Also, there's a pretty huge difference between censoring all the pornography on the internet (which would inevitably include lots of non-pornographic content) and occasionally asking hosting companies to remove illegal content from their networks as part of legal action against the offending individuals. Also, as an aside, I find it interesting that child porn tends to crop up in every single discussion of censoring the internet. It's something that pretty much everyone agrees is wrong, true, but it's not an argument for generalized censorship, any more than the existence of child abuse is an argument for putting sensors on every child in the world to see if they're being abused.
  - rapala 16y ago
    Hitler once wrote, that children must be in the focal point of the society as then anything can be done in the name of protecting them.
  - joshhart 16y ago
    Very fair points, but all I was trying to state is that there is a boundary where most people agree the material should be watched. Where that boundary is happens to be at different locations for different people, but I think it's important to establish one. Hence, I just disagree with the parent that "any censorship at all" is a problem.
  - pavel_lishin 16y ago
    > (in the USA, the FBI is the largest distributor of child porn, with the goal of arresting people who look at it, for instance) [citation needed] Really, I'm curious where you got this fact.
    - sorbus 16y ago
      I recall reading it in an article about child porn a while back, and so don't have a citation off-hand. A bit of googling hasn't turned up that exact fact from any reputable source, although I have seen some other people mentioning it, along with quotes supporting the assertion (which I haven't been able to find the source of, strangely). As early as 2007, the FBI did post links which claimed to be child porn as part of sting operations[1], and I remember reading about that in the past, so the fact might have gotten confused over time; it's also possible that I saw it in an article which I simply haven't been able to find. However, I'll retract that statement until I'm able to find a citation. [1] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-38.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-38.html
- alan-crowe 16y ago
  The Kincora Boys home scandal and the Marc Dutroux scandal warn us about government complicity in the sexual abuse of children. Censorship helps governments conceal their evil doing. If you favour censorship you will find yourself supporting censorship, even though you are not permitted to check the censored material for yourself. One day the adult raping the child, in the picture that no-one is allowed to see, will be the Minister of Justice and it will be the censorship laws that grant him impunity.

by madmaze 16y ago

joshhart 16y ago

Kiddie porn is OK?

sp332 16y ago
Kiddie porn is bad because of mistreatment of kids, duh. By the time it's on the internet, it's way too late to do anything useful about it.
- AngryParsley 16y ago
  Cannibalism is bad because it involves killing human beings. By the time the human meat is at the supermarket, it's way too late to do anything useful about it.
  - thwarted 16y ago
    And yet despite cannibalism being bad, there are no limits on you talking about eating meat, actually eating meat or owning a grill, which are all unrelated to eating humans.
    - AngryParsley 16y ago
      Of course. I'd even tolerate the sale and consumption of in-vitro human meat. (Computer generated imagery, if you're following the metaphor.)
  - rapala 16y ago
    Most people shopping at the supermarket could not see the difference between human meat and cow meat. Kiddie porn is not that hard to spot. It's interesting how we tie the act of consuming a product to the act of producing it. Sometimes it's more obvious, like when you buy your meat straight from the butcher. But is it as unethical if you buy the meat vacuum packaged from the supermarket? How about possessing kiddie porn, does it make you a child molester?
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > How about possessing kiddie porn, does it make you a child molester? No, but depending on where you live, you may be a criminal. I think driving kiddie porn consumers further underground will make it harder to find and prosecute the people actually molesting kids: the producers. While I have no sympathy with child-porn consumers and understand they enable the producers and molesters, I don't think they are the problem that demands most attention unless they molest children.
sorbus 16y ago
No, of course not. However, it isn't an excuse for censorship. It is an excuse for going after the people producing it, and monitoring those who consume it (in the USA, the FBI is the largest distributor of child porn, with the goal of arresting people who look at it, for instance). Also, there's a pretty huge difference between censoring all the pornography on the internet (which would inevitably include lots of non-pornographic content) and occasionally asking hosting companies to remove illegal content from their networks as part of legal action against the offending individuals. Also, as an aside, I find it interesting that child porn tends to crop up in every single discussion of censoring the internet. It's something that pretty much everyone agrees is wrong, true, but it's not an argument for generalized censorship, any more than the existence of child abuse is an argument for putting sensors on every child in the world to see if they're being abused.
- rapala 16y ago
  Hitler once wrote, that children must be in the focal point of the society as then anything can be done in the name of protecting them.
- joshhart 16y ago
  Very fair points, but all I was trying to state is that there is a boundary where most people agree the material should be watched. Where that boundary is happens to be at different locations for different people, but I think it's important to establish one. Hence, I just disagree with the parent that "any censorship at all" is a problem.
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  > (in the USA, the FBI is the largest distributor of child porn, with the goal of arresting people who look at it, for instance) [citation needed] Really, I'm curious where you got this fact.
  - sorbus 16y ago
    I recall reading it in an article about child porn a while back, and so don't have a citation off-hand. A bit of googling hasn't turned up that exact fact from any reputable source, although I have seen some other people mentioning it, along with quotes supporting the assertion (which I haven't been able to find the source of, strangely). As early as 2007, the FBI did post links which claimed to be child porn as part of sting operations[1], and I remember reading about that in the past, so the fact might have gotten confused over time; it's also possible that I saw it in an article which I simply haven't been able to find. However, I'll retract that statement until I'm able to find a citation. [1] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-38.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9899151-38.html
alan-crowe 16y ago
The Kincora Boys home scandal and the Marc Dutroux scandal warn us about government complicity in the sexual abuse of children. Censorship helps governments conceal their evil doing. If you favour censorship you will find yourself supporting censorship, even though you are not permitted to check the censored material for yourself. One day the adult raping the child, in the picture that no-one is allowed to see, will be the Minister of Justice and it will be the censorship laws that grant him impunity.