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I really at a loss why decent browsers for "techies" cannot be better. I really like uzbl-tabbed even though it's fairly primitive and the code is getting older

I really at a loss why decent browsers for "techies" cannot be better. I really like uzbl-tabbed even though it's fairly primitive and the code is getting older. All I need in a browser is the ability to browse (tabbed) while blocking ads. Browsers anymore have become walled gardens what with their add-on web stores, garbage like Pocket, sync, etc. I don't want any of that. Browsers could all be more like the old-school Konqueror, in the sense that one could import ad block lists at will without resorting to visiting store. No telemetry. No built in search for a certain search engine.

tomxor 7y ago
Bit of a digression but check out qutebrowser, it uses a chromium derived library under the hood, it has a VIM like interface. And it's engine isn't massively insecurely out of date like uzbl and co. However this has little to do with the discussion, I don't think qutebrowser does anything to stop fingerprinting and tracking like FireFox.
- stirfrykitty 7y ago
  Good info; thank you. I'll check it out.
catacombs 7y ago
> All I need in a browser is the ability to browse (tabbed) while blocking ads. You can do this in Firefox, with several great ad-blocking extensions, such as uBlock Origin or Adnsaueum. > Browsers anymore have become walled gardens what with their add-on web stores, garbage like Pocket, sync, etc. I don't want any of that. Browsers could all be more like the old-school Konqueror, in the sense that one could import ad block lists at will without resorting to visiting store. Firefox allows you to remove what you don't need, especially Pocket. Sync is optional. > No telemetry. No built in search for a certain search engine. There are specific Firefox configurations that disable telemetry: https://github.com/CrisBRM/user.js/blob/master/user.js https://github.com/CrisBRM/user.js/blob/master/user.js
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lozenge 7y ago
  The issue is that stuff just keeps being added. There's always something new to disable. Mozilla talk the talk on community input but then bypass it for Pocket or TV show tie-ins.
  - dzamo_norton 7y ago
    I guess some good soul could maintain and host a "Firefox Lite" config file that disables all these unwanted extras so that the work is done once.
driverdan 7y ago
Because many "techies" want something more advanced. I use a bunch of extensions to improve my experience (NoScript, uBlock Origin, HTTPS Everywhere, Bitwarden, Vimium etc). You could argue that many of these features should be built in (eg adblock) but not all of them (eg vimium). You don't have to install extensions if you don't want them. They're not walled gardens. I can install Firefox extensions without ever browsing any of Firefox's websites. I agree there should be no telemetry but there are FF forks with that removed.
- Yoric 7y ago
  Also, if you wish to know exactly what's in Telemetry, Mozilla publishes a report https://data.firefox.com/ https://data.firefox.com/.
  - sp332 7y ago
    And see the data for your own browser with about:telemetry.
taiwanboy 7y ago
Safari needs a killer feature to woo mainstream users from chrome. Privacy isn’t going to cut it
- scarface74 7y ago
  What users would Apple truly to lure away? The only platform that has both is MacOS and iOS. AFAIK most Mac users use Safari and even if you are using Chrome on iOS you’re still using the WebKit engine. How would winning users from a Chrome even help Apple if they did go head to head with Chrome? While developers may ignore Safari on the desktop, they can’t ignore iOS.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Importing a list implies there is something to consume the list like an adblocker. While this could and I think should be built into the browser having a complex enough addon system to build something like ublock origin ensures that you can always use best in class tools. As an example adblock plus was the best option years back until ublock origin came into being. ublock origin uses less resources, improves latency, and blocks some things that adblock does not. Had your hypothetical browser for techies standardized on building adblock plus into the browser you would be stuck with it for some years until they moved on instead of clicking a link in an addon store. Complex tools always end up being about the ecosystem because core developers neither have man centuries to scratch every itch nor a monopoly on good ideas. Insofar as you have an ecosystem distributing it via a central store or stores is a proven idea. You can make an informed decision to trust a store which can vet individual developers/companies and also make the decision to remove people who later abuse that trust. Example stylish was used by many users then sold to scummy people. Having your users browse the entire web and make the decision on the spot as to what to trust to run on their computer has failed so many times its hard to imagine it needs another try. It's all well and good to imagine that a sandbox should be used to limit the access an individual app or addon is allowed to have but such cages always have weak hinges somewhere and furthermore people often want at least some apps to have relatively expansive permissions so that interesting tools can be built. This leaves the users vulnerable to your hypothetical bad addon requesting permission to own the world and the user reflexively clicking yes.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rchaud 7y ago
For importing ad block lists you probably want to update your hosts file with something like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/hosts/master/data/StevenBlack/hosts https://raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/hosts/master/d...
FullMetalBitch 7y ago
Have you tried qutebrowser?
- joyjoyjoy 7y ago
  you may like: https://www.uzbl.org/ https://www.uzbl.org/
camjohnson26 7y ago
You should try Brave or Vivaldi.

tomxor 7y ago

Bit of a digression but check out qutebrowser, it uses a chromium derived library under the hood, it has a VIM like interface. And it's engine isn't massively insecurely out of date like uzbl and co. However this has little to do with the discussion, I don't think qutebrowser does anything to stop fingerprinting and tracking like FireFox.

stirfrykitty 7y ago
Good info; thank you. I'll check it out.

catacombs 7y ago

> All I need in a browser is the ability to browse (tabbed) while blocking ads. You can do this in Firefox, with several great ad-blocking extensions, such as uBlock Origin or Adnsaueum. > Browsers anymore have become walled gardens what with their add-on web stores, garbage like Pocket, sync, etc. I don't want any of that. Browsers could all be more like the old-school Konqueror, in the sense that one could import ad block lists at will without resorting to visiting store. Firefox allows you to remove what you don't need, especially Pocket. Sync is optional. > No telemetry. No built in search for a certain search engine. There are specific Firefox configurations that disable telemetry: https://github.com/CrisBRM/user.js/blob/master/user.js https://github.com/CrisBRM/user.js/blob/master/user.js

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lozenge 7y ago
The issue is that stuff just keeps being added. There's always something new to disable. Mozilla talk the talk on community input but then bypass it for Pocket or TV show tie-ins.
- dzamo_norton 7y ago
  I guess some good soul could maintain and host a "Firefox Lite" config file that disables all these unwanted extras so that the work is done once.

driverdan 7y ago

Because many "techies" want something more advanced. I use a bunch of extensions to improve my experience (NoScript, uBlock Origin, HTTPS Everywhere, Bitwarden, Vimium etc). You could argue that many of these features should be built in (eg adblock) but not all of them (eg vimium). You don't have to install extensions if you don't want them. They're not walled gardens. I can install Firefox extensions without ever browsing any of Firefox's websites. I agree there should be no telemetry but there are FF forks with that removed.

Yoric 7y ago
Also, if you wish to know exactly what's in Telemetry, Mozilla publishes a report https://data.firefox.com/ https://data.firefox.com/.
- sp332 7y ago
  And see the data for your own browser with about:telemetry.

taiwanboy 7y ago

Safari needs a killer feature to woo mainstream users from chrome. Privacy isn’t going to cut it

scarface74 7y ago
What users would Apple truly to lure away? The only platform that has both is MacOS and iOS. AFAIK most Mac users use Safari and even if you are using Chrome on iOS you’re still using the WebKit engine. How would winning users from a Chrome even help Apple if they did go head to head with Chrome? While developers may ignore Safari on the desktop, they can’t ignore iOS.

michaelmrose 7y ago

Importing a list implies there is something to consume the list like an adblocker. While this could and I think should be built into the browser having a complex enough addon system to build something like ublock origin ensures that you can always use best in class tools. As an example adblock plus was the best option years back until ublock origin came into being. ublock origin uses less resources, improves latency, and blocks some things that adblock does not. Had your hypothetical browser for techies standardized on building adblock plus into the browser you would be stuck with it for some years until they moved on instead of clicking a link in an addon store. Complex tools always end up being about the ecosystem because core developers neither have man centuries to scratch every itch nor a monopoly on good ideas. Insofar as you have an ecosystem distributing it via a central store or stores is a proven idea. You can make an informed decision to trust a store which can vet individual developers/companies and also make the decision to remove people who later abuse that trust. Example stylish was used by many users then sold to scummy people. Having your users browse the entire web and make the decision on the spot as to what to trust to run on their computer has failed so many times its hard to imagine it needs another try. It's all well and good to imagine that a sandbox should be used to limit the access an individual app or addon is allowed to have but such cages always have weak hinges somewhere and furthermore people often want at least some apps to have relatively expansive permissions so that interesting tools can be built. This leaves the users vulnerable to your hypothetical bad addon requesting permission to own the world and the user reflexively clicking yes.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

rchaud 7y ago

For importing ad block lists you probably want to update your hosts file with something like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/hosts/master/data/StevenBlack/hosts https://raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/hosts/master/d...

FullMetalBitch 7y ago

Have you tried qutebrowser?

joyjoyjoy 7y ago
you may like: https://www.uzbl.org/ https://www.uzbl.org/

camjohnson26 7y ago

You should try Brave or Vivaldi.