7 ms·

Impact HTML5 Game Engine released

204 points by helium 16y ago

ranza 16y ago
I kind of think that $99 is a lot for a js library. But then again its really well done and a game like biolab (http://playbiolab.com/ http://playbiolab.com/) runs so smooth. It might be worth it.
- ianp 16y ago
  Game-related libraries and engines can get expensive. They're both 3D, but C4 and Torque for example can both cost >$300USD. It's pretty expensive, but given how well that demo worked i'd probably buy it if i did any javascript.
  - charlesdm 16y ago
    That price is totally worth it though. I'm finishing up a first version of my own (native) C++ 2D engine. It runs smooth on iOS and Android, PC and I'm going to get it running on Bada, WebOS and Mac OS as well. The time it took me to get this up and running is around 1000ish hours, and I'm pretty experienced in the area. Going to put in 3D as well soon. :)
    - pdelgallego 16y ago
      I am probably in your customer target group. How it will compare with other engines, for example Unity3d. It will be only C++, are you adding a script language on top to make development faster?
      - charlesdm 16y ago
        I'll be adding lua as a scripting language, but it probably won't be in v1. That said, I don't really want to take the same direction that unity is currently taking. Since the engine that I wrote currently pretty much works on every mobile platform, I'm aiming to sell source code licenses to game companies. What kind of solution are you looking for?
- benologist 16y ago
  You have to keep in mind if you're making quality games you're doing it to earn money. In that context $99 isn't much - the art/audio/ip cost me $1000 on my last little Flash game!
batiste 16y ago
Quite a nice job, especially with the editor. If you want a bit of a lower level, open-source framework there is https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js
- wazoox 16y ago
  Awesome, and works properly in Firefox 3.6 :)
- SingAlong 16y ago
  Wow! that's awesome. I just checked the demo links in the readme. Sprite.js has collision too (haven't checked how it does collision). I tried to find out if three.js supports collision and I came across this issue https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/issues/issue/49 https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/issues/issue/49 which says that three.js will focus on rendering part alone. And mrdoob suggests JiglibJS (http://www.jiglibjs.org/ http://www.jiglibjs.org/) on the same thread. The other stuff available right now are: * gameQuery, a jquery plugin http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ * Akihabara, an NES style engine http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ * xc.js, new one under dev https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs I however have to mention that ImpactJS looks more complete and solid than the rest. I have a lot of kids coming home asking for small games, so made a few play Biolab (i liked it too) and was waiting eagerly for ImpactJS. P.S: Wasn't it mentioned on the impactjs website that it would be free? Well not that I care about the $99 fee.
extension 16y ago
$99 to make games with no sound, dodgy input, and a tiny fraction of the graphics and CPU power of native code. In case you've forgotten what native games look like: http://vimeo.com/16945125 http://vimeo.com/16945125 EDIT: I wouldn't be critical at all if this wasn't being sold. Since it is, I'm criticizing it as a business proposition, and it's a bad one. When games like Rage HD are being sold for a few bucks, I don't know how one would even make the $99 back on this engine.
- tomh- 16y ago
  This is comparing apples with oranges. HTML5 games are meant to compete with current flash games, not with native (and far more expensive to create) 3D games like the one in the video. Most of the succesful mobile games are created using a 2d engine. In the future, this could be done using HTML5 and its nice to see that some pioneers in the field already release engines to play around with it.
  - benologist 16y ago
    HTML5 is very much competing with native as well. HTML5 vs. Flash is just games on Kongregate etc, if that's all HTML5 does, if it even does, then its failed as a casual gaming platform.
    - SingAlong 16y ago
      I see HTML5 as a growing as a competitor to the native platform. When NaCl (NativeClient) is supported by the popular browsers you can shift all the computationally intensive calculations to the native code and have the rendering done in the browser window. Well, but I guess we'll have to wait for hardware acceleration too to be common thing in these browsers. With FF4 disabling something awesome like websockets by default, IMHO we are going backwards. P.S: Again the future of IE comes into play. Will they support NativeClient or stick to ActiveX stuff.
      - benologist 16y ago
        It's going to come down to the revenue streams and whether or not models emerge that make a single HTML5 version as (potentially) rewarding as multiple native versions.
fookyong 16y ago
Biolab http://playbiolab.com http://playbiolab.com runs so smoothly on a mobile web browser it's worth $99 just to see how it's done. Purchased a license immediately :)
- geuis 16y ago
  Sorry, it doesn't. The only publicly released game, his Biolab Disaster, loads an initial screen and just stops. This is on an iPhone 4, having cleared the safari cache and even restarting the phone. Not exactly impressed.
  - joakin 16y ago
    iPhone 4 here, smooth and addictive despite the 20 secs it took to load ( wifi )
    - rufo 16y ago
      It's a bit choppy on my iPhone 4, but it does work just fine for me. Choppy, but playable.
      - Twisol 16y ago
        Considering the last three parent comments are using an iPhone 4, the diversity of performance reports astounds me.
- teamonkey 16y ago
  It's even not too bad on my 3G. It chugs a bit when there are a lot of particles (so an option to switch off on older phones would be welcome), otherwise it's quite playable. Multitouch doesn't seem to work though. I can only press one control at a time.
- wazoox 16y ago
  Unfortunately, it doesn't load on my Pre plus. The loading bar apparently can't further than half the way.
woid 16y ago
purchased! now I have a toy to play with during christmas :-)
- jcfrei 16y ago
  any experiences? how well is it documented? I plan to buy it as well. 99$ is very little compared to the development time you might have doing it yourself.
Griever 16y ago
I've been waiting for this for quite some time now. I just picked up a license solely for the purpose of checking out his code for the map designer. Can't wait!
clyfe 16y ago
The grand list of similar (free) projects: http://easeljs.com/ http://easeljs.com/ https://github.com/biilly/doodle-js https://github.com/biilly/doodle-js https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js https://github.com/ysimonson/canvas.js https://github.com/ysimonson/canvas.js https://github.com/davebalmer/jo https://github.com/davebalmer/jo https://github.com/lostdecade/diggy https://github.com/lostdecade/diggy http://gamejs.org/ http://gamejs.org/ http://www.aframejs.com/ http://www.aframejs.com/ http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/
- mcav 16y ago
  Does anyone have any experience with one or more of the above, to help narrow down the field of viable frameworks?
  - Maciek416 16y ago
    I've been doing some tests with sprite.js. For what I want to do, it seems a bit sluggish and has some bugs. You can switch between DOM and Canvas mode, which is neat, but there are some bugs in the canvas mode that cause my sprites to disappear, and sprites with a repeating texture seem to show a seam. Impact looks quite a bit more polished.
  - charlesju 16y ago
    https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js has 900+ followers on github, by far the biggest project from my initial analysis.
    - ptownman 16y ago
      Very cool - I agree 100%
    - clyfe 16y ago
      I watch (follow) three.js on github for a while and I see frequent activity (commits, pull requests) on the project. Compared to most of the other (2d, simple stuff) frameworks this one is a full blown 3D engine albeit it does only rendering (no collision detection etc).
Calamitous 16y ago
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
savoy11 16y ago
And there we go - the typical HN oh no, it costs money ($99 for an engine, mind you, that may save you hundreds of hours development time). How much do you charge per hour? Can this library save you hundreds of hours? Do the math. I am not surpirsed at all that the average tech startup is a failure, with more than half of the people failing to get the "charge money for product/service" model everyone else in the world is using. Oh no, it costs money. So what exactly are you trying to start that succeeds without having a price tag on it? Man, I get tired of this, really. For every spot-on comment on HN, I read 5 that make me dumber each day.
- lukeschlather 16y ago
  >For every spot-on comment on HN, I read 5 that make me dumber each day. Please re-read the HN guidelines. >Can this library save you hundreds of hours? Do the math. I doubt it. I imagine it would cost me time I didn't even know I had, when someone who could have been extending and patching the platform is instead extending and patching a FOSS platform. Closed toolkits only work at large scales where you've got a dedicated team responding to every issue. Even then, they're sub-optimal.
  - exogen 16y ago
    It's much easier to dedicate all your time and respond to every issue when it's what's paying the bills. FOSS support and longevity are terrible, and this is from someone who maintains a dozen such projects.
    - lukeschlather 16y ago
      Software support and longevity are terrible, and this is from someone who uses hundreds of such products. I go in expecting bad support, and as such it's only natural that I don't like paying.
- Tichy 16y ago
  Is there even a demo I can try for free? Sorry, but chances are just as high that the library costs me time - time I invest to understand it, only to eventually find that it probably won't do what I need, and I can't easily fix it or extend it. (Playing devil's advocate here). Even if it does what I need now, who knows if it does what I need in two years? If it were open source, somebody could pick it up and keep developing it. Now if the commercial dev just abandons it, my investment in learning "impact" was wasted.
dstein 16y ago
I'm not sure if it's technically feasible, but there is probably a huge market for a game engine that can export JS/Canvas code to a native app code. I think now that Apple lighten up on their developer rules this is now a possibility.
_pius 16y ago
A little OT, but where do game designers here tend to buy their artwork? Is there an equivalent of ThemeForest/GraphicRiver for sprites and other game assets?
- ido 16y ago
  www.wayofthepixel.net isn't bad for finding artists looking for contract work.
yosephgilad 16y ago
If you are interested in getting paid to work on a small ImpactJS project, get in touch: yosephgilad AT gmail.
nick24862486 16y ago
I am for one happy they charge money. I am happy paying knowing it provides incentive for developers to make product even more awesome.
delackner 16y ago
Currently Audio support in html5 in iOS is really bad, and there's no way around that. Native code is the only realistic option right now for games on iOS. I don't see Apple going out of their way to "fix" the situation either. Specifically, telling an Audio element to simply load and then play a sound fails much of the time, or takes upwards of a full second to start playback of a very short sample file. Not to mention that iOS specifically prevents an Audio element from playing unless it is in a function responding to user touch. This means background sound effects and such are effectively impossible. I'd love very much if someone told me (with working sample code) that I was wrong.

204 points by helium 16y ago

ranza 16y ago

I kind of think that $99 is a lot for a js library. But then again its really well done and a game like biolab (http://playbiolab.com/ http://playbiolab.com/) runs so smooth. It might be worth it.

ianp 16y ago
Game-related libraries and engines can get expensive. They're both 3D, but C4 and Torque for example can both cost >$300USD. It's pretty expensive, but given how well that demo worked i'd probably buy it if i did any javascript.
- charlesdm 16y ago
  That price is totally worth it though. I'm finishing up a first version of my own (native) C++ 2D engine. It runs smooth on iOS and Android, PC and I'm going to get it running on Bada, WebOS and Mac OS as well. The time it took me to get this up and running is around 1000ish hours, and I'm pretty experienced in the area. Going to put in 3D as well soon. :)
  - pdelgallego 16y ago
    I am probably in your customer target group. How it will compare with other engines, for example Unity3d. It will be only C++, are you adding a script language on top to make development faster?
    - charlesdm 16y ago
      I'll be adding lua as a scripting language, but it probably won't be in v1. That said, I don't really want to take the same direction that unity is currently taking. Since the engine that I wrote currently pretty much works on every mobile platform, I'm aiming to sell source code licenses to game companies. What kind of solution are you looking for?
benologist 16y ago
You have to keep in mind if you're making quality games you're doing it to earn money. In that context $99 isn't much - the art/audio/ip cost me $1000 on my last little Flash game!

batiste 16y ago

Quite a nice job, especially with the editor. If you want a bit of a lower level, open-source framework there is https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js

wazoox 16y ago
Awesome, and works properly in Firefox 3.6 :)
SingAlong 16y ago
Wow! that's awesome. I just checked the demo links in the readme. Sprite.js has collision too (haven't checked how it does collision). I tried to find out if three.js supports collision and I came across this issue https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/issues/issue/49 https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/issues/issue/49 which says that three.js will focus on rendering part alone. And mrdoob suggests JiglibJS (http://www.jiglibjs.org/ http://www.jiglibjs.org/) on the same thread. The other stuff available right now are: * gameQuery, a jquery plugin http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ * Akihabara, an NES style engine http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ * xc.js, new one under dev https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs I however have to mention that ImpactJS looks more complete and solid than the rest. I have a lot of kids coming home asking for small games, so made a few play Biolab (i liked it too) and was waiting eagerly for ImpactJS. P.S: Wasn't it mentioned on the impactjs website that it would be free? Well not that I care about the $99 fee.

extension 16y ago

$99 to make games with no sound, dodgy input, and a tiny fraction of the graphics and CPU power of native code. In case you've forgotten what native games look like: http://vimeo.com/16945125 http://vimeo.com/16945125 EDIT: I wouldn't be critical at all if this wasn't being sold. Since it is, I'm criticizing it as a business proposition, and it's a bad one. When games like Rage HD are being sold for a few bucks, I don't know how one would even make the $99 back on this engine.

tomh- 16y ago
This is comparing apples with oranges. HTML5 games are meant to compete with current flash games, not with native (and far more expensive to create) 3D games like the one in the video. Most of the succesful mobile games are created using a 2d engine. In the future, this could be done using HTML5 and its nice to see that some pioneers in the field already release engines to play around with it.
- benologist 16y ago
  HTML5 is very much competing with native as well. HTML5 vs. Flash is just games on Kongregate etc, if that's all HTML5 does, if it even does, then its failed as a casual gaming platform.
  - SingAlong 16y ago
    I see HTML5 as a growing as a competitor to the native platform. When NaCl (NativeClient) is supported by the popular browsers you can shift all the computationally intensive calculations to the native code and have the rendering done in the browser window. Well, but I guess we'll have to wait for hardware acceleration too to be common thing in these browsers. With FF4 disabling something awesome like websockets by default, IMHO we are going backwards. P.S: Again the future of IE comes into play. Will they support NativeClient or stick to ActiveX stuff.
    - benologist 16y ago
      It's going to come down to the revenue streams and whether or not models emerge that make a single HTML5 version as (potentially) rewarding as multiple native versions.

fookyong 16y ago

Biolab http://playbiolab.com http://playbiolab.com runs so smoothly on a mobile web browser it's worth $99 just to see how it's done. Purchased a license immediately :)

geuis 16y ago
Sorry, it doesn't. The only publicly released game, his Biolab Disaster, loads an initial screen and just stops. This is on an iPhone 4, having cleared the safari cache and even restarting the phone. Not exactly impressed.
- joakin 16y ago
  iPhone 4 here, smooth and addictive despite the 20 secs it took to load ( wifi )
  - rufo 16y ago
    It's a bit choppy on my iPhone 4, but it does work just fine for me. Choppy, but playable.
    - Twisol 16y ago
      Considering the last three parent comments are using an iPhone 4, the diversity of performance reports astounds me.
teamonkey 16y ago
It's even not too bad on my 3G. It chugs a bit when there are a lot of particles (so an option to switch off on older phones would be welcome), otherwise it's quite playable. Multitouch doesn't seem to work though. I can only press one control at a time.
wazoox 16y ago
Unfortunately, it doesn't load on my Pre plus. The loading bar apparently can't further than half the way.

woid 16y ago

purchased! now I have a toy to play with during christmas :-)

jcfrei 16y ago
any experiences? how well is it documented? I plan to buy it as well. 99$ is very little compared to the development time you might have doing it yourself.

Griever 16y ago

I've been waiting for this for quite some time now. I just picked up a license solely for the purpose of checking out his code for the map designer. Can't wait!

clyfe 16y ago

The grand list of similar (free) projects: http://easeljs.com/ http://easeljs.com/ https://github.com/biilly/doodle-js https://github.com/biilly/doodle-js https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs https://github.com/fairfieldt/xcjs https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js https://github.com/batiste/sprite.js https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js https://github.com/ysimonson/canvas.js https://github.com/ysimonson/canvas.js https://github.com/davebalmer/jo https://github.com/davebalmer/jo https://github.com/lostdecade/diggy https://github.com/lostdecade/diggy http://gamejs.org/ http://gamejs.org/ http://www.aframejs.com/ http://www.aframejs.com/ http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ http://gamequery.onaluf.org/ http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/ http://www.kesiev.com/akihabara/

mcav 16y ago
Does anyone have any experience with one or more of the above, to help narrow down the field of viable frameworks?
- Maciek416 16y ago
  I've been doing some tests with sprite.js. For what I want to do, it seems a bit sluggish and has some bugs. You can switch between DOM and Canvas mode, which is neat, but there are some bugs in the canvas mode that cause my sprites to disappear, and sprites with a repeating texture seem to show a seam. Impact looks quite a bit more polished.
- charlesju 16y ago
  https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js has 900+ followers on github, by far the biggest project from my initial analysis.
  - ptownman 16y ago
    Very cool - I agree 100%
  - clyfe 16y ago
    I watch (follow) three.js on github for a while and I see frequent activity (commits, pull requests) on the project. Compared to most of the other (2d, simple stuff) frameworks this one is a full blown 3D engine albeit it does only rendering (no collision detection etc).

Calamitous 16y ago

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

savoy11 16y ago

And there we go - the typical HN oh no, it costs money ($99 for an engine, mind you, that may save you hundreds of hours development time). How much do you charge per hour? Can this library save you hundreds of hours? Do the math. I am not surpirsed at all that the average tech startup is a failure, with more than half of the people failing to get the "charge money for product/service" model everyone else in the world is using. Oh no, it costs money. So what exactly are you trying to start that succeeds without having a price tag on it? Man, I get tired of this, really. For every spot-on comment on HN, I read 5 that make me dumber each day.

lukeschlather 16y ago
>For every spot-on comment on HN, I read 5 that make me dumber each day. Please re-read the HN guidelines. >Can this library save you hundreds of hours? Do the math. I doubt it. I imagine it would cost me time I didn't even know I had, when someone who could have been extending and patching the platform is instead extending and patching a FOSS platform. Closed toolkits only work at large scales where you've got a dedicated team responding to every issue. Even then, they're sub-optimal.
- exogen 16y ago
  It's much easier to dedicate all your time and respond to every issue when it's what's paying the bills. FOSS support and longevity are terrible, and this is from someone who maintains a dozen such projects.
  - lukeschlather 16y ago
    Software support and longevity are terrible, and this is from someone who uses hundreds of such products. I go in expecting bad support, and as such it's only natural that I don't like paying.
Tichy 16y ago
Is there even a demo I can try for free? Sorry, but chances are just as high that the library costs me time - time I invest to understand it, only to eventually find that it probably won't do what I need, and I can't easily fix it or extend it. (Playing devil's advocate here). Even if it does what I need now, who knows if it does what I need in two years? If it were open source, somebody could pick it up and keep developing it. Now if the commercial dev just abandons it, my investment in learning "impact" was wasted.

dstein 16y ago

I'm not sure if it's technically feasible, but there is probably a huge market for a game engine that can export JS/Canvas code to a native app code. I think now that Apple lighten up on their developer rules this is now a possibility.

_pius 16y ago

A little OT, but where do game designers here tend to buy their artwork? Is there an equivalent of ThemeForest/GraphicRiver for sprites and other game assets?

ido 16y ago
www.wayofthepixel.net isn't bad for finding artists looking for contract work.

yosephgilad 16y ago

If you are interested in getting paid to work on a small ImpactJS project, get in touch: yosephgilad AT gmail.

nick24862486 16y ago

I am for one happy they charge money. I am happy paying knowing it provides incentive for developers to make product even more awesome.

delackner 16y ago

Currently Audio support in html5 in iOS is really bad, and there's no way around that. Native code is the only realistic option right now for games on iOS. I don't see Apple going out of their way to "fix" the situation either. Specifically, telling an Audio element to simply load and then play a sound fails much of the time, or takes upwards of a full second to start playback of a very short sample file. Not to mention that iOS specifically prevents an Audio element from playing unless it is in a function responding to user touch. This means background sound effects and such are effectively impossible. I'd love very much if someone told me (with working sample code) that I was wrong.