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Wow, marketing spam from a competitor. We send confidential docs regularly to users, who need access to those docs for perhaps 1 week at most. No one wants / n

Wow, marketing spam from a competitor. We send confidential docs regularly to users, who need access to those docs for perhaps 1 week at most. No one wants / needs to keep these around, but no one goes through their email carefully to delete these items. If that users email was hacked -> they have a big problem. If we can mark the items for a 3 week retention and then expire those items for them, that great - and this lets us do that. The whole I can wireshark my network -> 99.9% of the confidential info we send goes to other folks who ALSO want to keep it confidential. Getting rid of stuff you no longer need to maintain is a key way of helping avoid big document dumps. The proof is in the pudding. Either this will help google sell to business (it will in our case in a big way). Or folks will say it is a stupid feature and decide idiots like Protonmail who can't seem to understand the point of these features now deserve our business. My confidence in a place like protonmail goes down based on this, and I'd love to get a feel for their security history and overpromises (ie, webmail client has got to easily be able to log and hack encryption etc).

joosters 7y ago
There's no need to call Protonmail idiots in order to put across your views on the subject, keep it civil. Plus, it makes your argument look weak if you have to resort to name-calling.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  Let me be super clear than. "Gmail confidential mode is little more than a marketing strategy." FALSE - This type of approach has real and direct security benefits. The fact that proton can't see understand that makes them idiots. "Gmail’s confidential mode is little more than a marketing trick designed to pacify users concerned about privacy." FALSE - Many business users using google are less concerned about privacy than they are about SECURITY. In the business context, most privacy is already given up, your employer can go through your emails. They can vault them up, do e-discovery on them etc etc. These aren't folks fighting off nation states. These are folks who someone in the office WILL click the bogus link and have their account taken over - and the business wants to reduce the blast radius. Saying this is a marketing "trick" is silly and the fact that proton can't see that makes them idiots.
icedchai 7y ago
These sort of features are really just security theater. If someone really wants to share your "confidential" docs they'll screenshot every page to do it.
- notimetorelax 7y ago
  They always say that security is built layer by layer. Ensuring that the attached docs expire helps limit an impact of a hack or an account takeover.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  BOTH parties want to avoid it sticking around in their email forever. Do folks not work with partners who are sloppy with security? You send over you stuff. No one wants to leak it but someone's email is hacked. Do you want your stuff in their email still 5 years later? Do folks not work in business? Bob sends sue draft of updated raises, sue edits and adds some notes and sends them back. A final decision is reached. After some time the big list of salary info by position -> folks want that out of their emails. This would keep it out. This is a REAL security benefit. It goes to show that folks like protonmail and other security experts don't have a good real world understanding of risks to info people face. It's not all state level hacking, it's folks being lazy, not cleaning out their email, then getting hacked.
  - icedchai 7y ago
    I agree there is some benefit. But it also may lull people into a false sense of security thinking that information cannot possibly be copied outside the organization.
techslave 7y ago
wow. you couldn’t be more wrong! protonmail knows very well that their point is false. it’s just free marketing for them. they are just hijacking the popularity of google to gain some benefit for their tiny company. they aren’t idiots, they’re just failing and desperate.
Apaec 7y ago
The hacker news guidelines explicitly mention avoiding calling names like idiotic/idiots. @dang: does this merit a flag or ban? I think toxic fanatism make hn a worse place for discussion.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  Stop posting articles with over the top language from obvious competitors calling a competitors feature a “trick”. Talk about over the top language - “toxic fanaticism”? Really? The name calling of other posters you disagree with makes hn worse (my comments focused on a company not this community)
  - Apaec 7y ago
    What's the problem with Google having a competitor, why are you so hyped about?(This is why I think you're a fanatic) Also, why are you so eagerly defending the big guy/monopolist in the room. Is this the attitude of an entrepreneur or hacker? One that is part of the "hacker news" community?
    - privateSFacct 7y ago
      Apaec - can I encourage you to focus on the post / article and make comments about that rather than attacking other posters? If you think this feature (which you don’t need to use) is a “trick” that has no value that is fine - explain why no one should use it - give some examples etc Stop with the whole focus on other posters motivations, calling them “toxic fanatics” etc. Google has lots of competitors - the big one is exchange / outlook - which has a confidential email mode. For a list of competitors look here: https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/email-hosting https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/email-hosting It’s not unreasonable for them to add a feature to better compete with MS. I didn’t even see Protonmail on that pie chart
      - privateSFacct 7y ago
        @dang - I'm sorry I'm unsure of how this @ mention banning process works. Please do review apaec approach before following their request for a ban. For example "I guess it can't be proved that this guy is a shill for AWS. But this kind of toxic fanatism(yet trying to sound logical) is just harmful for the HN community. dang: Can this kind of behavior be punished?" as an earlier comment around something to do with AWS. Why does someone "trying to sound logical" mean they are a "shill" or a "toxic fanatic"? In this thread I'm called a "toxic fanatic" and there is a claim about my support for monopolies and my lack of desire for competition (all of which is totally untrue in actual fact) with no substance regarding the value (or not) of the privacy / confidentiality feature google introduced. I'm also threatened with a ban.

joosters 7y ago

There's no need to call Protonmail idiots in order to put across your views on the subject, keep it civil. Plus, it makes your argument look weak if you have to resort to name-calling.

privateSFacct 7y ago
Let me be super clear than. "Gmail confidential mode is little more than a marketing strategy." FALSE - This type of approach has real and direct security benefits. The fact that proton can't see understand that makes them idiots. "Gmail’s confidential mode is little more than a marketing trick designed to pacify users concerned about privacy." FALSE - Many business users using google are less concerned about privacy than they are about SECURITY. In the business context, most privacy is already given up, your employer can go through your emails. They can vault them up, do e-discovery on them etc etc. These aren't folks fighting off nation states. These are folks who someone in the office WILL click the bogus link and have their account taken over - and the business wants to reduce the blast radius. Saying this is a marketing "trick" is silly and the fact that proton can't see that makes them idiots.

icedchai 7y ago

These sort of features are really just security theater. If someone really wants to share your "confidential" docs they'll screenshot every page to do it.

notimetorelax 7y ago
They always say that security is built layer by layer. Ensuring that the attached docs expire helps limit an impact of a hack or an account takeover.
privateSFacct 7y ago
BOTH parties want to avoid it sticking around in their email forever. Do folks not work with partners who are sloppy with security? You send over you stuff. No one wants to leak it but someone's email is hacked. Do you want your stuff in their email still 5 years later? Do folks not work in business? Bob sends sue draft of updated raises, sue edits and adds some notes and sends them back. A final decision is reached. After some time the big list of salary info by position -> folks want that out of their emails. This would keep it out. This is a REAL security benefit. It goes to show that folks like protonmail and other security experts don't have a good real world understanding of risks to info people face. It's not all state level hacking, it's folks being lazy, not cleaning out their email, then getting hacked.
- icedchai 7y ago
  I agree there is some benefit. But it also may lull people into a false sense of security thinking that information cannot possibly be copied outside the organization.

techslave 7y ago

wow. you couldn’t be more wrong! protonmail knows very well that their point is false. it’s just free marketing for them. they are just hijacking the popularity of google to gain some benefit for their tiny company. they aren’t idiots, they’re just failing and desperate.

Apaec 7y ago

The hacker news guidelines explicitly mention avoiding calling names like idiotic/idiots. @dang: does this merit a flag or ban? I think toxic fanatism make hn a worse place for discussion.

privateSFacct 7y ago
Stop posting articles with over the top language from obvious competitors calling a competitors feature a “trick”. Talk about over the top language - “toxic fanaticism”? Really? The name calling of other posters you disagree with makes hn worse (my comments focused on a company not this community)
- Apaec 7y ago
  What's the problem with Google having a competitor, why are you so hyped about?(This is why I think you're a fanatic) Also, why are you so eagerly defending the big guy/monopolist in the room. Is this the attitude of an entrepreneur or hacker? One that is part of the "hacker news" community?
  - privateSFacct 7y ago
    Apaec - can I encourage you to focus on the post / article and make comments about that rather than attacking other posters? If you think this feature (which you don’t need to use) is a “trick” that has no value that is fine - explain why no one should use it - give some examples etc Stop with the whole focus on other posters motivations, calling them “toxic fanatics” etc. Google has lots of competitors - the big one is exchange / outlook - which has a confidential email mode. For a list of competitors look here: https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/email-hosting https://www.datanyze.com/market-share/email-hosting It’s not unreasonable for them to add a feature to better compete with MS. I didn’t even see Protonmail on that pie chart
    - privateSFacct 7y ago
      @dang - I'm sorry I'm unsure of how this @ mention banning process works. Please do review apaec approach before following their request for a ban. For example "I guess it can't be proved that this guy is a shill for AWS. But this kind of toxic fanatism(yet trying to sound logical) is just harmful for the HN community. dang: Can this kind of behavior be punished?" as an earlier comment around something to do with AWS. Why does someone "trying to sound logical" mean they are a "shill" or a "toxic fanatic"? In this thread I'm called a "toxic fanatic" and there is a claim about my support for monopolies and my lack of desire for competition (all of which is totally untrue in actual fact) with no substance regarding the value (or not) of the privacy / confidentiality feature google introduced. I'm also threatened with a ban.