4 ms·

> I don’t think it’s possible to really prevent the government from using that Yes it is. Private entities do stuff all the time that the government is expres

> I don’t think it’s possible to really prevent the government from using that Yes it is. Private entities do stuff all the time that the government is expressly not allowed to get away with and we generally hold them to it. Free speech is the classic example that comes to mind.

mindslight 7y ago
Erm, the point is that with private companies performing the collection and then USG merely using the proceeds, it sidesteps direct constraints on the government like the Constitution. And since use of that surveillance then becomes normalized in the commercial sphere, law enforcement feels definitively entitled to access the databases - imagine telling police they can't perform lookups in eg LexisNexis!
mixmastamyk 7y ago
As the grandparent alluded, one 9/11 and privacy rules go in the garbage. The PBS special, "The United States of Secrets" documented this period well.
- jrumbut 7y ago
  And then some major activism and those laws go away. We can't afford a fatalist attitude to this. It very much is not inevitable that airplanes with cameras with monitor everything we do. And even if the data is gathered there may be some ways to control or delay its use for nefarious activities. It's a choice, and we have a voice in that choice. There is a broad range of possible outcomes here some much worse than others.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Preaching to the choir here.
Simulacra 7y ago
You're taking a global view of a very narrow position, and ignoring enforcement. I can take a photo of you every time you leave your house, or drive in your car, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. The government would have to overcome monumental constitutional issues to prevent me from taking your photo in public. On top of that, how do you enforce such a measure? I think as a thought experiment, tell us where you live and maybe someone will come and take a photo of you every day, and you try and stop them. Heck they might already be doing that now....

mindslight 7y ago

Erm, the point is that with private companies performing the collection and then USG merely using the proceeds, it sidesteps direct constraints on the government like the Constitution. And since use of that surveillance then becomes normalized in the commercial sphere, law enforcement feels definitively entitled to access the databases - imagine telling police they can't perform lookups in eg LexisNexis!

mixmastamyk 7y ago

As the grandparent alluded, one 9/11 and privacy rules go in the garbage. The PBS special, "The United States of Secrets" documented this period well.

jrumbut 7y ago
And then some major activism and those laws go away. We can't afford a fatalist attitude to this. It very much is not inevitable that airplanes with cameras with monitor everything we do. And even if the data is gathered there may be some ways to control or delay its use for nefarious activities. It's a choice, and we have a voice in that choice. There is a broad range of possible outcomes here some much worse than others.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Preaching to the choir here.

Simulacra 7y ago

You're taking a global view of a very narrow position, and ignoring enforcement. I can take a photo of you every time you leave your house, or drive in your car, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. The government would have to overcome monumental constitutional issues to prevent me from taking your photo in public. On top of that, how do you enforce such a measure? I think as a thought experiment, tell us where you live and maybe someone will come and take a photo of you every day, and you try and stop them. Heck they might already be doing that now....