5 ms·

It seems to me that CloudFlare should just sponsor servers for inclusion in the long-standing global NTP pools. https://www.ntppool.org/en/ https://www.ntppool

by redm 7y ago

It seems to me that CloudFlare should just sponsor servers for inclusion in the long-standing global NTP pools. https://www.ntppool.org/en/ https://www.ntppool.org/en/

diggan 7y ago
pool.ntp.org is a open source project (under Apache License) with a open group of contributors (volunteers). Basically the opposite of what Cloudflare is and stands for. Sponsoring servers in pool.ntp.org wouldn't support Cloudflare's goal(s).
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  I don't think they were implying it would support Cloudflares goals, but it would be nice to see big companies helping to fund public services, especially when many companies profit from open source tech.
  - diggan 7y ago
    I agree with what you say but if a person sets up a for-profit company, their goal will always be to generate profits, not to be/do good. That's why we don't see Cloudflare supporting things like pool.ntp.org
- judge2020 7y ago
  Just wondering, do Apple or MSFT sponsor them? They also run their own respective NTP servers.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Apple and Microsoft run their own pools for their own OS clients. There is purpose and value in not having critical internet infra not held and operated by for-profit companies (see: ntp pool, let's encrypt, root dns servers, etc). What Cloudflare offers the community is cool, but the world at large should be prepared for them to evaporate at any time (or, more likely, to be acquired by someone not as benevolent).
xmichael999 7y ago
CloudFlare is against anything open source. They seem like they are a nice sharing company but think again. They like Amazon are Open source thieves.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Dunno man, they release tremendous amounts of code, and pump huge resources into audits and other things which often go unaddressed in public projects. Aside from a moment of executive weakness a few years ago, they've been very principled and extremely generous. I'm a bit concerned that they may become unprincipled and tyrannical once they are critical infrastructure, but that's a separate matter. Google is extremely generous as well, but as of late they are also disturbingly meddlesome.
- Spivak 7y ago
  Would it even matter if they use OSS software to speak an open protocol for OSS clients? It's not like your freedom is being restricted by their software licensing, if it was going to hurt anyone it would be CF themselves. Stealing OSS software is kind of an oxymoron.
- _wmd 7y ago
  While I think your conclusion is a little strong, it is fair to say they're trying their hardest to legitimize by becoming entangled into almost every possible piece of infrastructure around. As far as giant databases in the sky are concerned, in my book Cloudflare joined the same category as Google a long time ago. I don't like them because they've become another data-aggregating SPOF anyone with sense should actively avoid depending on
- jgrahamc 7y ago
  This is bullshit and untrue. We contribute back our changes to open source all the time via https://cloudflare.github.io/ https://cloudflare.github.io/. We upstream where people will take our changes. We directly pay open source developers (take a look at all the money we paid to Mike Pall for LuaJIT) and employ/employed people working on open source projects (e.g. OpenResty). Over years we've been contributing and explaining how we operate and open sourcing the relevant code (just look at the series of blogs by Marek Majkowski and others talking about how we fight DDoS and open sourcing the tooling).
mentat 7y ago
Target accuracy for pool inclusion is not sufficient for many use cases. I've personally seen tens to 100s of ms difference between pool members. With no quality filter that's strict enough, adding more to that pool doesn't help.

by redm 7y ago

It seems to me that CloudFlare should just sponsor servers for inclusion in the long-standing global NTP pools. https://www.ntppool.org/en/ https://www.ntppool.org/en/

diggan 7y ago

pool.ntp.org is a open source project (under Apache License) with a open group of contributors (volunteers). Basically the opposite of what Cloudflare is and stands for. Sponsoring servers in pool.ntp.org wouldn't support Cloudflare's goal(s).

giancarlostoro 7y ago
I don't think they were implying it would support Cloudflares goals, but it would be nice to see big companies helping to fund public services, especially when many companies profit from open source tech.
- diggan 7y ago
  I agree with what you say but if a person sets up a for-profit company, their goal will always be to generate profits, not to be/do good. That's why we don't see Cloudflare supporting things like pool.ntp.org
judge2020 7y ago
Just wondering, do Apple or MSFT sponsor them? They also run their own respective NTP servers.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Apple and Microsoft run their own pools for their own OS clients. There is purpose and value in not having critical internet infra not held and operated by for-profit companies (see: ntp pool, let's encrypt, root dns servers, etc). What Cloudflare offers the community is cool, but the world at large should be prepared for them to evaporate at any time (or, more likely, to be acquired by someone not as benevolent).

xmichael999 7y ago

CloudFlare is against anything open source. They seem like they are a nice sharing company but think again. They like Amazon are Open source thieves.

microcolonel 7y ago
Dunno man, they release tremendous amounts of code, and pump huge resources into audits and other things which often go unaddressed in public projects. Aside from a moment of executive weakness a few years ago, they've been very principled and extremely generous. I'm a bit concerned that they may become unprincipled and tyrannical once they are critical infrastructure, but that's a separate matter. Google is extremely generous as well, but as of late they are also disturbingly meddlesome.
Spivak 7y ago
Would it even matter if they use OSS software to speak an open protocol for OSS clients? It's not like your freedom is being restricted by their software licensing, if it was going to hurt anyone it would be CF themselves. Stealing OSS software is kind of an oxymoron.
_wmd 7y ago
While I think your conclusion is a little strong, it is fair to say they're trying their hardest to legitimize by becoming entangled into almost every possible piece of infrastructure around. As far as giant databases in the sky are concerned, in my book Cloudflare joined the same category as Google a long time ago. I don't like them because they've become another data-aggregating SPOF anyone with sense should actively avoid depending on
jgrahamc 7y ago
This is bullshit and untrue. We contribute back our changes to open source all the time via https://cloudflare.github.io/ https://cloudflare.github.io/. We upstream where people will take our changes. We directly pay open source developers (take a look at all the money we paid to Mike Pall for LuaJIT) and employ/employed people working on open source projects (e.g. OpenResty). Over years we've been contributing and explaining how we operate and open sourcing the relevant code (just look at the series of blogs by Marek Majkowski and others talking about how we fight DDoS and open sourcing the tooling).

mentat 7y ago

Target accuracy for pool inclusion is not sufficient for many use cases. I've personally seen tens to 100s of ms difference between pool members. With no quality filter that's strict enough, adding more to that pool doesn't help.