5 ms·

I fly gliders. Absolutely can't wait until my local club finally decides to get an electric single-seat self-launching glider, preferably with enough endurance

by marvin 7y ago

I fly gliders. Absolutely can't wait until my local club finally decides to get an electric single-seat self-launching glider, preferably with enough endurance to do some additional tens of kilometers after the launch, in order to avoid landing out if the weather dies out. It's a gamechanger with regards to both costs and convenience. No towplane, towplane pilot, no outlandings.

maxxxxx 7y ago
How about a battery that can glide by itself? You attach a big battery for the launch and once you are up you disconnect and it glides back to the airfield. That should be possible today technically. Not sure how safety would work.
- mannykannot 7y ago
  What you are thinking of is not very different than an aerotow from an electric airplane.
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    I was just thinking about something autonomous. Basically a battery with wings. That way you don't need a plane with pilot.
    - namibj 7y ago
      Well, we already have autonomous electric planes. I don't see why your idea shouldn't work. For the near term, remote control of the battery might be easier/more feasible.
    - dalbasal 7y ago
      Parachute not enough?
      - maxxxxx 7y ago
        I don't think so. You cant steer a parachute well and you don't want some bypasser to get hit by a heavy battery on a parachute. The descent speed on a parachute is very high so it will hurt or more.
        dalbasal 7y ago
        Parachutes can be steered.
    - cagenut 7y ago
      you might like rctestflight's youtube channel here he gets a battery powered drone with solar to gain altitude and charge the batteries during clear skies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2iCj-HSqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2iCj-HSqY here he shows off a new feature in arduinopilot, autonomous thermaling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAX3cPvMqw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAX3cPvMqw also, check out the "Sunseeker Duo" https://www.solar-flight.com/sunseeker-duo/ https://www.solar-flight.com/sunseeker-duo/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvwqJpyahs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvwqJpyahs its only a matter of time before someone combines them
- marvin 7y ago
  Oh, electric self launch planes are both viable and available already. It's just a question of manufacturers making them with slightly higher battery capacity, which seems perfectly feasible based on a napkin calculation. Current self-launch electric gliders can climb to cruise altitude and still have >20km of endurance as a contingency for recovery. If that number was 100km with high reliability, it would almost qualify as a new type of aircraft. You could do cross-country flights that you'd never attempt in an unpowered glider, e.g. above big stretches of high, mountainous terrain. The Norwegian Hardanger plateau comes to mind as an example. Un-landable terrain, 1 km above sea level with a small window for unpowered navigation, national park and absolutely beautiful.
m463 7y ago
I imagine solar would be a possibility for gliders. They have high launch energy followed by zero propulsion very high-efficiency gliding afterwards. Covering the large wing area could with solar cells and allow for range extension or possibly even continuous flight. Solar panels are mostly structural, but the cells themselves are basically a thin foil.
dmytroi 7y ago
I also started to fly gliders, and it would be lovely indeed to have electric self-launching glider, though unfortunately atm there are just too few of them, most popular are Arcus E and ASG 32 El, both are too new (cost a lot of money) and too rare. I wouldn't mind if our club get one, but it might be more economical to get a few other high performance gliders instead (like get two ASW 27 instead of one ASG 32 El) as it much easier to deal with them in a club context (doing 5+ launches per day, maintenance, etc). Most likely a first viable step would be to get electrical tow plane first.
upofadown 7y ago
Self launching on batteries means carrying around a fair bit of dead battery weight for the entire flight. Electric sustainers (can't take off but can stay up) are pretty interesting because gliders take hardly any power to fly level. Example: * http://front-electric-sustainer.com http://front-electric-sustainer.com All this electric vehicle technology works really well for electric glider winches. You can get a whole lot of peak power off of a battery so you don't need a huge electric power feed.
- trollied 7y ago
  Are super capacitors lighter and a better choice for the self-launching use case? I have no idea, hence asking and wanting to know :-)
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    Maybe. Nawa's ultra-capacitors sound good: https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production/59684/ https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production... I hope they get adopted by Formula E. A bank of ultra-capacitors in front of the main battery should make the cars lighter with stronger regenerative braking.

by marvin 7y ago

maxxxxx 7y ago

How about a battery that can glide by itself? You attach a big battery for the launch and once you are up you disconnect and it glides back to the airfield. That should be possible today technically. Not sure how safety would work.

mannykannot 7y ago
What you are thinking of is not very different than an aerotow from an electric airplane.
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  I was just thinking about something autonomous. Basically a battery with wings. That way you don't need a plane with pilot.
  - namibj 7y ago
    Well, we already have autonomous electric planes. I don't see why your idea shouldn't work. For the near term, remote control of the battery might be easier/more feasible.
  - dalbasal 7y ago
    Parachute not enough?
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      I don't think so. You cant steer a parachute well and you don't want some bypasser to get hit by a heavy battery on a parachute. The descent speed on a parachute is very high so it will hurt or more.
      - dalbasal 7y ago
        Parachutes can be steered.
  - cagenut 7y ago
    you might like rctestflight's youtube channel here he gets a battery powered drone with solar to gain altitude and charge the batteries during clear skies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2iCj-HSqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS2iCj-HSqY here he shows off a new feature in arduinopilot, autonomous thermaling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAX3cPvMqw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAX3cPvMqw also, check out the "Sunseeker Duo" https://www.solar-flight.com/sunseeker-duo/ https://www.solar-flight.com/sunseeker-duo/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvwqJpyahs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvwqJpyahs its only a matter of time before someone combines them
marvin 7y ago
Oh, electric self launch planes are both viable and available already. It's just a question of manufacturers making them with slightly higher battery capacity, which seems perfectly feasible based on a napkin calculation. Current self-launch electric gliders can climb to cruise altitude and still have >20km of endurance as a contingency for recovery. If that number was 100km with high reliability, it would almost qualify as a new type of aircraft. You could do cross-country flights that you'd never attempt in an unpowered glider, e.g. above big stretches of high, mountainous terrain. The Norwegian Hardanger plateau comes to mind as an example. Un-landable terrain, 1 km above sea level with a small window for unpowered navigation, national park and absolutely beautiful.

m463 7y ago

I imagine solar would be a possibility for gliders. They have high launch energy followed by zero propulsion very high-efficiency gliding afterwards. Covering the large wing area could with solar cells and allow for range extension or possibly even continuous flight. Solar panels are mostly structural, but the cells themselves are basically a thin foil.

dmytroi 7y ago

I also started to fly gliders, and it would be lovely indeed to have electric self-launching glider, though unfortunately atm there are just too few of them, most popular are Arcus E and ASG 32 El, both are too new (cost a lot of money) and too rare. I wouldn't mind if our club get one, but it might be more economical to get a few other high performance gliders instead (like get two ASW 27 instead of one ASG 32 El) as it much easier to deal with them in a club context (doing 5+ launches per day, maintenance, etc). Most likely a first viable step would be to get electrical tow plane first.

upofadown 7y ago

Self launching on batteries means carrying around a fair bit of dead battery weight for the entire flight. Electric sustainers (can't take off but can stay up) are pretty interesting because gliders take hardly any power to fly level. Example: * http://front-electric-sustainer.com http://front-electric-sustainer.com All this electric vehicle technology works really well for electric glider winches. You can get a whole lot of peak power off of a battery so you don't need a huge electric power feed.

trollied 7y ago
Are super capacitors lighter and a better choice for the self-launching use case? I have no idea, hence asking and wanting to know :-)
- clouddrover 7y ago
  Maybe. Nawa's ultra-capacitors sound good: https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production/59684/ https://newatlas.com/nawa-nanotube-ultracapacitor-production... I hope they get adopted by Formula E. A bank of ultra-capacitors in front of the main battery should make the cars lighter with stronger regenerative braking.