4 ms·

>If these drivers get everything they want, I cannot imagine a scenario where fares do not go through the roof, which will likely lead to a decrease in demand,

>If these drivers get everything they want, I cannot imagine a scenario where fares do not go through the roof, which will likely lead to a decrease in demand, which will have a negative effect on take-home pay for drivers. With that in mind, revisit page 8 of uber's S1 document(link below), where their momentum towards profitability depends of a circle of arrows where more drivers/driver availability → lower fares/wait times → more riders → more driver opportunity/earning potential → more drivers Now just turn the arrows backwards and swap out less/more lower/higher ; if something like unionization occurs that's the path through which uber will (according to their own rubric) spiral down to 0. The only way they could prevent hemorrhaging drivers and users once that spiral started would be to burn through VC money at a faster rate. S1 document - https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1543151/000119312519103850/d647752ds1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1543151/000119312519...

seeker61 7y ago
What can be destroyed by paying its workers enough to live on ... should be
- dogma1138 7y ago
  Do you think the people who made your clothes were paid enough to live on? I highly doubt so.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Uber drivers in question are faced with first world costs of living. You're moving the goal posts in support of economic slavery (comparing third world workers in the third world to first world gig workers in the first world, with first world costs of living). If you can't pay your first world employees a first world living wage, Bye Felica.
    - dogma1138 7y ago
      Do you think sweatshops in Bangladesh pay Bangladeshi living wage? If the only problem you have with this is that this exposes modern slavery in your back yard then you have a problem.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I have a problem with all modern slavery but I'm practical about the parts of the ocean I have enough energy to boil. I highly encourage workers in third world countries to unionize and fight for a living wage locally through activism and political engagement.
    - jstarfish 7y ago
      Taxi driving is not skilled labor. It simply isn't worth much; certainly not what its full-time drivers are demanding. Can we also complain about Mechanical Turk? I'd like to earn first-world wages classifying pictures of cats full-time. Neither scenario is what the gig economy is supposed to be about. If a job doesn't pay sustainably, don't do it. We tried to regulate taxis such that driving one paid wages on par with costs of living, but then some asshole company undermined that with a populist smartphone app.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        So your argument is allow economic abuse instead of regulating against it? No thank you. I like regulation; with it, we get a better society, not Mad Max Race To The Bottom driven by apathetic consumers and psychopathic businesses. EDIT: I do see the problem, and still believe regulation is the answer (in this case, California legislation [1]). "If signed into law, the legislation will codify a landmark April 2018 California Supreme Court ruling, which introduced a three-part test to determine which workers businesses can reasonably classify as independent contractors and which must be treated as genuine employees. Workers considered employees are entitled to key labor protections and benefits—such as a minimum wage, overtime pay, and protections under antidiscrimination laws—which many gig-economy companies have long resisted." This will decapitate gig economy companies in California. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/california-lawmakers-move-protect-gig-economy-workers/ https://www.wired.com/story/california-lawmakers-move-protec...
        jstarfish 7y ago
        No, I'm for regulation, but Uber drivers themselves are actually the problem here. We had a regulated industry. Its labor force had collective bargaining power. Its labor pool was capped to limit surplus labor and everyone could get paid fairly. Uber came along, organized a bunch of scabs willing to work for pennies to undermine all that, devalued the labor the existing industry provided and now those scabs are complaining they're not paid enough. Do you not see the problem with this?
        jstarfish 7y ago
  - eli_gottlieb 7y ago
    What can be destroyed by paying its workers enough to live on should be.

seeker61 7y ago

What can be destroyed by paying its workers enough to live on ... should be

dogma1138 7y ago
Do you think the people who made your clothes were paid enough to live on? I highly doubt so.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Uber drivers in question are faced with first world costs of living. You're moving the goal posts in support of economic slavery (comparing third world workers in the third world to first world gig workers in the first world, with first world costs of living). If you can't pay your first world employees a first world living wage, Bye Felica.
  - dogma1138 7y ago
    Do you think sweatshops in Bangladesh pay Bangladeshi living wage? If the only problem you have with this is that this exposes modern slavery in your back yard then you have a problem.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      I have a problem with all modern slavery but I'm practical about the parts of the ocean I have enough energy to boil. I highly encourage workers in third world countries to unionize and fight for a living wage locally through activism and political engagement.
  - jstarfish 7y ago
    Taxi driving is not skilled labor. It simply isn't worth much; certainly not what its full-time drivers are demanding. Can we also complain about Mechanical Turk? I'd like to earn first-world wages classifying pictures of cats full-time. Neither scenario is what the gig economy is supposed to be about. If a job doesn't pay sustainably, don't do it. We tried to regulate taxis such that driving one paid wages on par with costs of living, but then some asshole company undermined that with a populist smartphone app.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      So your argument is allow economic abuse instead of regulating against it? No thank you. I like regulation; with it, we get a better society, not Mad Max Race To The Bottom driven by apathetic consumers and psychopathic businesses. EDIT: I do see the problem, and still believe regulation is the answer (in this case, California legislation [1]). "If signed into law, the legislation will codify a landmark April 2018 California Supreme Court ruling, which introduced a three-part test to determine which workers businesses can reasonably classify as independent contractors and which must be treated as genuine employees. Workers considered employees are entitled to key labor protections and benefits—such as a minimum wage, overtime pay, and protections under antidiscrimination laws—which many gig-economy companies have long resisted." This will decapitate gig economy companies in California. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/california-lawmakers-move-protect-gig-economy-workers/ https://www.wired.com/story/california-lawmakers-move-protec...
      - jstarfish 7y ago
        No, I'm for regulation, but Uber drivers themselves are actually the problem here. We had a regulated industry. Its labor force had collective bargaining power. Its labor pool was capped to limit surplus labor and everyone could get paid fairly. Uber came along, organized a bunch of scabs willing to work for pennies to undermine all that, devalued the labor the existing industry provided and now those scabs are complaining they're not paid enough. Do you not see the problem with this?
      - jstarfish 7y ago
- eli_gottlieb 7y ago
  What can be destroyed by paying its workers enough to live on should be.