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Most states are adopting graduated licensing so that more privileges become available as you get older. I think we will see a trend where the min age will be 1

by sjg007 7y ago

Most states are adopting graduated licensing so that more privileges become available as you get older. I think we will see a trend where the min age will be 18. There will obviously be some hardship provisions for provisional earlier driving but in the long term everyone will move to an 18+ licensing requirement. The minimum 18 age to vote happened b/c of the 26th amendment. FDR had lowered the age of military conscription to 18 but the general age to vote was 21 (it was determined by states at the time).. That lead to a 'Old enough to fight, old enough to die' campaign which petitioned for lowering the voting age to 18, which eventually happened.

mc32 7y ago
Since now it’s a voluntary force I guess that obviates the reasoning. Although I don’t see that getting rolled back. I think it makes sense to roll back driving age until autonomous driving becomes an actual option. Some minor pols are calling for _lowering_ of the voting age, which seems out of place, although no serious pol is pushing for that. One could argue that voting rights ought to coincide with emancipation and being self-sufficient.
- tialaramex 7y ago
  The rationale for lowering the age is universal suffrage, same argument as giving women the vote, giving those with no property the vote, giving those with no education the vote. Share the responsibility for the terrible decisions. Historically those with the vote have often pretended that they vote wisely and newcomers could not be depended upon to do likewise. There is no evidence for this proposition, Trump appealed perfectly well to retirees, to men, to those who owned country estates, and only lost marginally among the well-educated. If there is wisdom, it's not the domain of the existing electorate. As to why it shouldn't coincide with emancipation, government policy doesn't wait until you're emancipated, everything from whether the air you breathe is toxic to whether you have to do gym class is a matter of government policy, why not give those affected a say?
  - mc32 7y ago
    Because until emancipation your well-being is looked after by others who do have this right. Until you are emancipated, one is essentially selfish (taking in, rather than being contributory and adding value). I.e. you don’t have as much skin in the game. You don’t have to have property to contribute, you don’t have to be a man to contribute. It’s clear those aspects were anachronistic and failed to reflect reality. At the same time a 25 year old who has no desire to move out from a parents or guardians home has less argument to a right to vote than a 16 year old who’s pulling a job, going to school and helping siblings financially or otherwise.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  Young men aged 18 still have to register for Selective Service. The underlying issue remains: 18-year-olds ought be able to vote for or against people with the power to draft them.
  - mc32 7y ago
    Fair enough, are you saying then that there could be a case for young women who don’t yet have to register for selective service to have this pushed back?
    - cgriswald 7y ago
      Of course. Such an argument would be sound. But the political reality would make any such a case untenable. I wonder what would be easier: 1. Rolling back the voting age only for women. 2. Dismantling Secret Service and forbidding drafts by constitutional amendment. 3. Requiring women to register for Selective Service. 4. Rolling back the voting age for everyone with a voluntary Selective Service, and then granting voting rights for anyone male or female signed up for Selective Service or active military service.
      - mc32 7y ago
        I’d go with no 4. Grant voting rights to enlistees who entered early as well (those with parental/guardian consent), if we think about it logically. Even if in this case it’s voluntary because it’s obvious they’re willing to take the call of duty whatever that is and that contributes to our society’s continuity.

by sjg007 7y ago

mc32 7y ago

Since now it’s a voluntary force I guess that obviates the reasoning. Although I don’t see that getting rolled back. I think it makes sense to roll back driving age until autonomous driving becomes an actual option. Some minor pols are calling for _lowering_ of the voting age, which seems out of place, although no serious pol is pushing for that. One could argue that voting rights ought to coincide with emancipation and being self-sufficient.

tialaramex 7y ago
The rationale for lowering the age is universal suffrage, same argument as giving women the vote, giving those with no property the vote, giving those with no education the vote. Share the responsibility for the terrible decisions. Historically those with the vote have often pretended that they vote wisely and newcomers could not be depended upon to do likewise. There is no evidence for this proposition, Trump appealed perfectly well to retirees, to men, to those who owned country estates, and only lost marginally among the well-educated. If there is wisdom, it's not the domain of the existing electorate. As to why it shouldn't coincide with emancipation, government policy doesn't wait until you're emancipated, everything from whether the air you breathe is toxic to whether you have to do gym class is a matter of government policy, why not give those affected a say?
- mc32 7y ago
  Because until emancipation your well-being is looked after by others who do have this right. Until you are emancipated, one is essentially selfish (taking in, rather than being contributory and adding value). I.e. you don’t have as much skin in the game. You don’t have to have property to contribute, you don’t have to be a man to contribute. It’s clear those aspects were anachronistic and failed to reflect reality. At the same time a 25 year old who has no desire to move out from a parents or guardians home has less argument to a right to vote than a 16 year old who’s pulling a job, going to school and helping siblings financially or otherwise.
cgriswald 7y ago
Young men aged 18 still have to register for Selective Service. The underlying issue remains: 18-year-olds ought be able to vote for or against people with the power to draft them.
- mc32 7y ago
  Fair enough, are you saying then that there could be a case for young women who don’t yet have to register for selective service to have this pushed back?
  - cgriswald 7y ago
    Of course. Such an argument would be sound. But the political reality would make any such a case untenable. I wonder what would be easier: 1. Rolling back the voting age only for women. 2. Dismantling Secret Service and forbidding drafts by constitutional amendment. 3. Requiring women to register for Selective Service. 4. Rolling back the voting age for everyone with a voluntary Selective Service, and then granting voting rights for anyone male or female signed up for Selective Service or active military service.
    - mc32 7y ago
      I’d go with no 4. Grant voting rights to enlistees who entered early as well (those with parental/guardian consent), if we think about it logically. Even if in this case it’s voluntary because it’s obvious they’re willing to take the call of duty whatever that is and that contributes to our society’s continuity.