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Most of the "Contract with America" is not a right wing thing (shown by the fact it had broad support and catapulted the Republican Party back to power), and Tr

by jki275 7y ago

Most of the "Contract with America" is not a right wing thing (shown by the fact it had broad support and catapulted the Republican Party back to power), and Trump is not a right wing person. He's a barely middle of the road person who would have been considered quite unsuited to be a Republican in the 80s. The Republican Party of the 80s would never have nominated someone who would nominate a gay ambassador -- the Democratic Party likely would not have either. Washington in general has shifted quite far to the left since the 80s. And "democrat" vs "democratic" is probably an autocorrect "tic". I'm also not a Republican, and certainly not an "activist" in any way. My personal beliefs are that almost all politicians are simply interested in power and say the things they think will get them elected -- and in general the striking differences between the parties are on which programs they want to spend the money that does not exist. Bill would not be able to get the nomination of the Democratic Party today -- he would be considered far too right wing.

mikeash 7y ago
Trump is a far right authoritarian. If he seems to be left of 80s Republicans, it’s only because Republicans have waged a fairly successful campaign to equate authoritarianism with leftism.
- jki275 7y ago
  Trump is a sort of left leaning libertarian. He doesn't align socially or fiscally with the Republican Party on any issue other than perhaps abortion and it's an easy argument to make that he changed that position solely to get the evangelical vote so he could get the nomination. He could have credibly run as a Democrat, probably won the nomination, and had the Democrats singing his praises now. His policies on immigration align with Clinton, Obama, Schumer and others from less than ten years ago. He's to the left of both of the Clintons on prison reform. He's to the left of both of the Clintons and Obama on gay marriage (well, Hillary changed her position two years ago, but otherwise). He's to the left of Bill on fiscal responsibility. etc. I could go on.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Libertarian, really? Since when do libertarians lock people up without trial, advocate against free speech, and vastly bloat government spending?
    - jki275 7y ago
      I’m confused, I wasn’t talking about the Obama administration.
      - mikeash 7y ago
        Are you somehow under the impression that Trump hasn't done this, or are you trying to make the blindingly obvious argument that Obama wasn't a libertarian?
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Trump is a sort of left leaning libertarian. Trump is a corrupt, opportunist that is probably more of a kleptocrat than having any coherent ideology, but the Trump Administration is a right-wing authoritarian regime in its concrete policy actions. > He doesn't align socially or fiscally with the Republican Party In the 2016 primary campaign, while there was still any significant Republican Party in the electorate or in government that hadn't aligned itself almost completely with Trump's actions, and when one could only assess Trump's position by trying to construct a narrative out of a mass of ambiguous and conflicting statements (both during the campaign and prior) rather than concrete policy and personnel actions, this was a defensible position, but it no longer is. > He could have credibly run as a Democrat Perhaps before he burnt Bridges with the Democratic electorate by (among other things) jumping into birtherism, he might have—he did have a long history of seeking influence with the New York political establishment (dominated by Democrats) by feigning support for Democratic policy positions that, had he not started showing his true colors as he did several years before running for the Republican nomination, he might have been a non-ridiculous (though still doomed) 2016 Democratic primary candidate, even with his even longer and well-documented history of racism and sexism which Democratic 2016 primary voters would probably have been less forgiving of than Republican primary voters the same year. Of course, he would have had to run a very different campaign with a very different assumed persona. > probably won the nomination, No, and to even treat that as even semi-serious requires not understanding the situation and rules in the Republican nominating process Trump exploited to win, the ones in the Democratic primary that Clinton exploited to win, and how the rules of both are engineered to be different than each other or a simple election. > He's to the left of both of the Clintons and Obama on gay marriage (well, Hillary changed her position two years ago, but otherwise). Rhetorically on that narrow issue perhaps, but his substantive actions are far to their right on LGBTQ issues generally. This is particularly dramatically clear when it comes to policy on transgender military service,where both Obama and Trump made active policy changes to the policy which was in place prior to their own respective presidencies, in opposite directions. > He's to the left of Bill on fiscal responsibility. etc. To the extent that there are ldleft and right positions on fiscal responsibility, the left wing position is that “fiscal responsibility” is a reason to cut defense and security spending and/or raise taxes on the rich to pay for government spending, while he right wing position is that fiscal responsibility is a reason to cut social programs or cut taxes on the rich (because tax cuts obviously increase revenues) to pay for government spending. Trump is not to the left of, well, anyone in the Democratic Party Cli on this issue.

by jki275 7y ago

mikeash 7y ago

Trump is a far right authoritarian. If he seems to be left of 80s Republicans, it’s only because Republicans have waged a fairly successful campaign to equate authoritarianism with leftism.

jki275 7y ago
Trump is a sort of left leaning libertarian. He doesn't align socially or fiscally with the Republican Party on any issue other than perhaps abortion and it's an easy argument to make that he changed that position solely to get the evangelical vote so he could get the nomination. He could have credibly run as a Democrat, probably won the nomination, and had the Democrats singing his praises now. His policies on immigration align with Clinton, Obama, Schumer and others from less than ten years ago. He's to the left of both of the Clintons on prison reform. He's to the left of both of the Clintons and Obama on gay marriage (well, Hillary changed her position two years ago, but otherwise). He's to the left of Bill on fiscal responsibility. etc. I could go on.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Libertarian, really? Since when do libertarians lock people up without trial, advocate against free speech, and vastly bloat government spending?
  - jki275 7y ago
    I’m confused, I wasn’t talking about the Obama administration.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      Are you somehow under the impression that Trump hasn't done this, or are you trying to make the blindingly obvious argument that Obama wasn't a libertarian?
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Trump is a sort of left leaning libertarian. Trump is a corrupt, opportunist that is probably more of a kleptocrat than having any coherent ideology, but the Trump Administration is a right-wing authoritarian regime in its concrete policy actions. > He doesn't align socially or fiscally with the Republican Party In the 2016 primary campaign, while there was still any significant Republican Party in the electorate or in government that hadn't aligned itself almost completely with Trump's actions, and when one could only assess Trump's position by trying to construct a narrative out of a mass of ambiguous and conflicting statements (both during the campaign and prior) rather than concrete policy and personnel actions, this was a defensible position, but it no longer is. > He could have credibly run as a Democrat Perhaps before he burnt Bridges with the Democratic electorate by (among other things) jumping into birtherism, he might have—he did have a long history of seeking influence with the New York political establishment (dominated by Democrats) by feigning support for Democratic policy positions that, had he not started showing his true colors as he did several years before running for the Republican nomination, he might have been a non-ridiculous (though still doomed) 2016 Democratic primary candidate, even with his even longer and well-documented history of racism and sexism which Democratic 2016 primary voters would probably have been less forgiving of than Republican primary voters the same year. Of course, he would have had to run a very different campaign with a very different assumed persona. > probably won the nomination, No, and to even treat that as even semi-serious requires not understanding the situation and rules in the Republican nominating process Trump exploited to win, the ones in the Democratic primary that Clinton exploited to win, and how the rules of both are engineered to be different than each other or a simple election. > He's to the left of both of the Clintons and Obama on gay marriage (well, Hillary changed her position two years ago, but otherwise). Rhetorically on that narrow issue perhaps, but his substantive actions are far to their right on LGBTQ issues generally. This is particularly dramatically clear when it comes to policy on transgender military service,where both Obama and Trump made active policy changes to the policy which was in place prior to their own respective presidencies, in opposite directions. > He's to the left of Bill on fiscal responsibility. etc. To the extent that there are ldleft and right positions on fiscal responsibility, the left wing position is that “fiscal responsibility” is a reason to cut defense and security spending and/or raise taxes on the rich to pay for government spending, while he right wing position is that fiscal responsibility is a reason to cut social programs or cut taxes on the rich (because tax cuts obviously increase revenues) to pay for government spending. Trump is not to the left of, well, anyone in the Democratic Party Cli on this issue.