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Why anyone would trust an app from China with any of their data is beyond me. The firewalls between business and government that we take for granted in the West

by koboll 7y ago

Why anyone would trust an app from China with any of their data is beyond me. The firewalls between business and government that we take for granted in the West simply don't exist there, and the PRC leverages the widespread ignorance of this to its advantage.

Calamity 7y ago
Indeed, in the west we are lucky (in some sense) that our tech is big enough that it is able to band together and stand up against unreasonable demands from the government. In China, I can't imagine Huawei/Tencent/etc refusing to help the government break into someone's phone or create a backdoor into an "encrypted" chat.
- throwaway857384 7y ago
  Don't western governments ask for the data, then tell the company they can't say anything to their customers or anyone else... Basically, the same thing, but with a different description.
  - Riverheart 7y ago
    Sure, Governments can. The difference is companies can fight it in court. And win. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/how-tech-companies-can-fight-their-users-courts https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/how-tech-companies-can...
- slezyr 7y ago
  > Indeed, in the west we are lucky (in some sense) that our tech is big enough that it is able to band together and stand up against unreasonable demands from the government. I assume microsoft isn't big enough, because it was stripping encryption from Skype and making it centralized.
  - Calamity 7y ago
    As far as I know, Skype is E2EE..
throwaway857384 7y ago
Being a devil's advocate here, but why would anyone trust an American company with there data? I get China is the bad guy and all that, but American companies are basically doing the same thing, they just have different ways of describing the process.
- Calamity 7y ago
  Like I just commented, because American companies aren't slaves to a government "master". As much as we sometimes like to hate on Google/FB and other big tech, their size allows them to act as a balance of power against an overly-invasive government. For example, WhatsApp (and Messenger) being E2EE by default(with confidence through audits) is completely counter to what a government seeking full public surveillance would want. Same thing with Apple's encrypted phones. The government can't just waltz in and ask for the data as a) the companies can't help even if they wanted through the very nature of the in-built encryption b) the government can't threaten to shut them down without public uproar
  - catacombs 7y ago
    > American companies aren't slaves to a government "master" They are slaves to their shareholders.
    - Calamity 7y ago
      I think there is a good chapter from "Business Adventures" where it talks about and describes some typical annual shareholder meetings - from the book, it seemed essentially to be lip service by the company. Your average shareholder doesn't have a say. It would be more precise to say "large controlling interests" and by extension "board of directors"
diggan 7y ago
> Why anyone would trust an app from China with any of their data is beyond me. I don't think this is exclusive to China. Why would anyone trust any app from anywhere with any of their data is beyond me. Simply assume that anything you put in any app/website to be public and you'll feel a lot better. Facebook is as likely to share all their data with their government as Tiktok is, simply the cost of doing business anywhere.
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  Cause FB is having public fights about privacy in the public eye
catacombs 7y ago
> Why anyone would trust an app from China with any of their data is beyond me. I agree. But tell that to the hundreds of thousands of teenagers who use the app as a major social media network. They don't care. It's all about the followers, likes and, for some, endorsement deals.

by koboll 7y ago

Calamity 7y ago

Indeed, in the west we are lucky (in some sense) that our tech is big enough that it is able to band together and stand up against unreasonable demands from the government. In China, I can't imagine Huawei/Tencent/etc refusing to help the government break into someone's phone or create a backdoor into an "encrypted" chat.

throwaway857384 7y ago
Don't western governments ask for the data, then tell the company they can't say anything to their customers or anyone else... Basically, the same thing, but with a different description.
- Riverheart 7y ago
  Sure, Governments can. The difference is companies can fight it in court. And win. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/how-tech-companies-can-fight-their-users-courts https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/how-tech-companies-can...
slezyr 7y ago
> Indeed, in the west we are lucky (in some sense) that our tech is big enough that it is able to band together and stand up against unreasonable demands from the government. I assume microsoft isn't big enough, because it was stripping encryption from Skype and making it centralized.
- Calamity 7y ago
  As far as I know, Skype is E2EE..

throwaway857384 7y ago

Being a devil's advocate here, but why would anyone trust an American company with there data? I get China is the bad guy and all that, but American companies are basically doing the same thing, they just have different ways of describing the process.

Calamity 7y ago
Like I just commented, because American companies aren't slaves to a government "master". As much as we sometimes like to hate on Google/FB and other big tech, their size allows them to act as a balance of power against an overly-invasive government. For example, WhatsApp (and Messenger) being E2EE by default(with confidence through audits) is completely counter to what a government seeking full public surveillance would want. Same thing with Apple's encrypted phones. The government can't just waltz in and ask for the data as a) the companies can't help even if they wanted through the very nature of the in-built encryption b) the government can't threaten to shut them down without public uproar
- catacombs 7y ago
  > American companies aren't slaves to a government "master" They are slaves to their shareholders.
  - Calamity 7y ago
    I think there is a good chapter from "Business Adventures" where it talks about and describes some typical annual shareholder meetings - from the book, it seemed essentially to be lip service by the company. Your average shareholder doesn't have a say. It would be more precise to say "large controlling interests" and by extension "board of directors"

diggan 7y ago

> Why anyone would trust an app from China with any of their data is beyond me. I don't think this is exclusive to China. Why would anyone trust any app from anywhere with any of their data is beyond me. Simply assume that anything you put in any app/website to be public and you'll feel a lot better. Facebook is as likely to share all their data with their government as Tiktok is, simply the cost of doing business anywhere.

DeonPenny 7y ago
Cause FB is having public fights about privacy in the public eye

catacombs 7y ago

> Why anyone would trust an app from China with any of their data is beyond me. I agree. But tell that to the hundreds of thousands of teenagers who use the app as a major social media network. They don't care. It's all about the followers, likes and, for some, endorsement deals.