5 ms·

>Then you wouldn't have any laptop, but also no justification to demand an immediate replacement or deem not receiving one "unacceptable" My computer failed to

>Then you wouldn't have any laptop, but also no justification to demand an immediate replacement or deem not receiving one "unacceptable" My computer failed to start one morning, it was my work only computer that I use for my job(work remote from a village) so I went in the city with the PC, I found a shop, the person there tested my RAM,CPU and other parts, the motherboard was broken, I baught a new motherboard , paid the poerson to replace it, I also asked for a GPU upgrade and a cleaning. In a few hours I was back working. If this was a MacBook there is no store in the small city I live near, I would probably had to find someone that could "illegaly" test the laptop and that would use his connections to find me some "illegal" parts and wait for those parts to arrive. I am also using my PCs after the warranty expires and fix them if a component breaks(like memory). My old AMD Phenom 2 is still running (my son uses it for lite gaming). is the one that I had to replace the motherboard. (I also bought a quality APS to keep my equipment safe)

keymone 7y ago
what is your point? you do realize that there exists a scenario where you wouldn't be able to go to the city and get your PC fixed? so is your recommendation then to build a factory where any PC component can be produced on demand within a day? if macbook is not an option because of circumstances you're in - don't buy a macbook. this need to publicly defend and rationalize your life choices along with implicit condemnation of choice of others is just weird. people have different preferences and live in different circumstances. - yours truly, captain obvious.
- simion314 7y ago
  My point is that we need "right to repair", there should not be a monopoly on who can fix something or who can create parts, A second point is that waiting 5 days for someone to look at your hardware and tell you if it can or can't be fixed is also a problem. At least you don't wait 1 week for a response, then a week for parts to arrive and then a few days for the thing to be fixed. I am not sure why you felt the need to respond in such a way, you can respond with the scenario I did not consider and explain why your opinion is the correrct one.
  - ianamartin 7y ago
    You already have a right to buy stuff and put it together yourself and fix it. Go do that. Or pay someone to do it. I prefer the super thin, svelte designed devices that simply cannot be made easily repairable. There is no “right” to enforce your particular design and implementation standards on manufacturers. You’re inventing rights that do not and should not exist. If you want to tinker, that’s great. Go tinker. Most of us do not. It’s idiotic for a tiny percentage of people who do want to whip out a soldering iron and go to town to put constraints on what the rest of us are allowed to buy. And FYI, I do like to put together a machine every once in a while and fix it and tinker with it. It’s fun. I enjoy it. But that doesn’t mean I have some sort of fundamental human right to make every thing buildable by me, personally. The right to repair is like the right to live your whole life without ever being offended by anything or encounter an idea you find uncomfortable. Enforcing your personal right abrogates other people’s rights and denies other people things they like to say, think, and buy. But the real truth is that the right to repair always boils down to some clown on the internet who read an iFixit tear down and thinks, “man, I could make my own i-whatever for, like a hundred bucks if only Apple could be forced to sell me all the parts in exactly the right configuration at a price that only accounts for the bare basic raw materials. If you want the fancy things, pay for the fancy things. If you want a brick house machine that you can cart through the jungle and swap out a new motherboard every time you drop it in a river, then buy one of those. No one is stopping you. The choice you want to have already exists.
    - simion314 7y ago
      You are covering up the actual facts:" 1 if you publish Apples repair manuals apple with come after you, explain me how is this hurting the consumer, how is this making your phone thinker ? 2 Apple is preventing imports of parts from refurbished hardware, is this helping with the phone dimensions? 3 I don't want to repair my computer, I want others to repair them for me, It is idiotic(your words) to insinuate that people want to fix stuff themselves, it is not, is it possible to stop repeating this "idiotic" statement??? 4 some companies introduce DRM to prevent fixing stuff, is this helping the consumer? how? if I have 2 identical broken laptops and I want to move parts from A to B to get 1 working one why should DRM prevent this? Is is my hardware, I have the right to use it as I want, it is a right to do with my property what I want if I do not hurt others, Please, please let me know why DRM should prevent me do what I want with my hardware, About your thing phone statements, I am not proposing hardware companies make them like LEGOs, If they make it so fixing a key means replacing the entire phone or laptop the company will pay through their nose when the keys start failing, so I personally I am not your target for thin phones rage.
- Chazprime 7y ago
  The issue with Macs is that repairing one often isn't a straightforward process. My current MacBook Pro had video issues when I first got it; I was lucky to have Apple replace it on the spot, but often options for repair through Apple are very time-consuming and often costly.
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    And the real issue here is that this is an absolutely unacceptable level of service for a company that tries to sell itself as a premium brand. A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours. Given Apple's margins and market cap, the fact that Apple refuses to offer a similar level of service even as part of a paid support contract is a symptom of complacency and outright penny-pinching greed. And short-sightedness. It's a fair bet that legendary customer support would do some wonderfully positive things for the Apple brand - and perhaps even for profits. But Cook seems too busy disappointing customers and counting his pile of beans and to consider that as a possibility.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
      > A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours. I have had a similar experience with Dell - and on a laptop that cost a fair bit less than a MacBook Pro, FWIW.
rzwitserloot 7y ago
There's a tradeoff involved. Not always, but often: Either [A] the part is easy to access and replace, or [B] the part fits in a smaller space or the hardware can be faster and less likely to fail in the first place. If you would prefer to trade away smaller, faster, and more robust for accessibility, you should do that. MacBooks are for the folks who side with [B] a lot, and they make that fairly clear. NB: Of course, sometimes there is a 'tradeoff' where a part of the device is basically just crappier for no real gain, and sometimes the non-standard part's primary gain is 'cheaper', which can be an upside, but it can also be some nickel-and-dime baloney that is clearly a bad tradeoff and the company making the device is trying to get away with it hoping nobody notices. I'm not talking about those tradeoffs. Examples: * Using a non-standard screen connector cable because all the available standards do not allow for a single cable to connect device to screen (the case with imacs) * The effect of soldering the RAM straight onto the motherboard (much smaller and more robust; banging a laptop into a corner is less likely to unseat soldered-on RAM than RAM in a replaceable bay whose engineering is focused more on it being really small than the connection being particularly robust. Yes, YOU can fix it, but your average user perhaps isn't quite as cavalier at opening it all up). * A single replaceable battery is nice, but if you just glue a bunch of packs in there you can fill every nook and cranny. For what it is worth, apple is still trying to make this as replaceable as possible within reason: I've done a battery replacement on a non-retina macbook air 11, and the 4 separate packs are glued onto a sheet of plastic so you can remove the entire assembly (after disconnecting various ribbons). Separate from that, there's the notion of 'whose responsibility is it?' – this is a more hairy topic. If you open up your own PC and stick a giant, overclocked CPU in there and then attach a teensy tiny cooler to it all, perhaps due to unfortunate circumstance some of the capacitors on the motherboard blow up due to the excessive heat wafting off of the CPU, which manages to peg itself to 90ºC and survives. If you then make a warranty claim vs. the manufacturer, that feels inappropriate. A manufacturer that tries to stop this from happening would either have to excessively spec out the precise limits of what you can and cannot do (a good idea, but such rules need wiggle room, which means it can't be as fast/small/cutting-edge as it could be), or do what apple does and basically say: Hey, if a qualified apple service engineer isn't doing the work, you're on your own. I'm not exactly happy with this state of affairs, but I don't see a strictly better alternative either.
lloeki 7y ago
Based on this information I infer that you have a desktop machine. If you had a PC laptop you’d be equally screwed, with zero chance the shop had a spare motherboard for your machine. Granted you’d be equally screwed with a Mac Mini or iMac but fundamentally this has nothing to do with Apple vs PC. Desktop PCs that can be changed with standard parts or even custom built are not the market norm anymore and entered the specialised market realm long ago. Your post also reads very much as "You're wrong to use Apple" but you have to realise that they produce a very reasonable solution for many. My use case covers a wide spectrum of mobility, security, dev, music, and photo/video editing, and while alternatives can do things like that they won't do so as efficiently and with the same quality across that whole spectrum for me. It would be foolish to shoot myself in the foot by nerfing my workflows every single minute of the day for a rare event. I do have a spare machine (which does not need to be the latest and greatest so can come out pretty cheap), which allows me a very quick turnover to continue working, well within an hour of a fatal failure (and that's even though I have an Apple Store 5 min away from my place).
- simion314 7y ago
  Not true,IMO 1 I would have got the person at the shop check it and tell me if I need a new laptop or a new part, this happened to a laptop of mine and I decided I would get a new laptop, then the shop person offered to buy the display and RAM from me and I sold it, so a different person would be able to fix his laptop 2 a spare part can be found from a different laptop or ordered online by the shop, so they can order it at the time I arrived with my broken laptop I don't think that I would have been screwed but let me know if you still disagree.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    So other laptops are exactly like macbooks, but presumably the spare parts are less prevalent?
    - simion314 7y ago
      No, the laptop was old and not in a great condition, I would have to buy new motherboard,CPU and who knows what, I preferred not to invest my money into that and get a new one.
sureaboutthis 7y ago
That's why I would never buy a Ferrari. In my small town, I wouldn't be able to find anyone to work on it. What a crap car.
- simion314 7y ago
  Do you insinuate that Apple hardware is a fashion statement and not for real work? If I live in a big city can I get my iMac/MacBook fixed without scheduling in 1-2 hours? I seen the LTT saga with the iMac where they could not fix it so it would be like you crash your Ferarri and you have to wait for them to first train the mechanics and create the spare parts and after that have it fixed.
  - sureaboutthis 7y ago
    Absolutely not! I haven't a clue why you think that. My point is, the guy I responded to complains that he can get his commodity hardware fixed anywhere while his Apple needs to be taken to a "specialty" store as if they were the same thing.
    - simion314 7y ago
      can you respond to this :c an you get it unscheduled repairs from Apple in the same day? I had more then 1 point, let me be more clear: 1 I had more then one repair shop in a small city, so I have choices 2 I got the unscheduled issue diagnosed and fixed in max 2 hours 3 I even made a GPU upgrade and I had choices AMD or NVIDIA Btw even living in a village I can get things fixed like any other people, like when a new thing I bought broke in the first week I sent it back, it took 3 weeks to have it replaced but it works on small villages too. My example was about a PC that was important for my work and that was out of warranty, though with PCs, in the way I buy them I have warranty for each part so I have the option to go in the town, have someone test and replace the broken part(maybe I buy a cheap GPU or RAM) and send only the broken part back.
      - lancesells 7y ago

keymone 7y ago

what is your point? you do realize that there exists a scenario where you wouldn't be able to go to the city and get your PC fixed? so is your recommendation then to build a factory where any PC component can be produced on demand within a day? if macbook is not an option because of circumstances you're in - don't buy a macbook. this need to publicly defend and rationalize your life choices along with implicit condemnation of choice of others is just weird. people have different preferences and live in different circumstances. - yours truly, captain obvious.

simion314 7y ago
My point is that we need "right to repair", there should not be a monopoly on who can fix something or who can create parts, A second point is that waiting 5 days for someone to look at your hardware and tell you if it can or can't be fixed is also a problem. At least you don't wait 1 week for a response, then a week for parts to arrive and then a few days for the thing to be fixed. I am not sure why you felt the need to respond in such a way, you can respond with the scenario I did not consider and explain why your opinion is the correrct one.
- ianamartin 7y ago
  You already have a right to buy stuff and put it together yourself and fix it. Go do that. Or pay someone to do it. I prefer the super thin, svelte designed devices that simply cannot be made easily repairable. There is no “right” to enforce your particular design and implementation standards on manufacturers. You’re inventing rights that do not and should not exist. If you want to tinker, that’s great. Go tinker. Most of us do not. It’s idiotic for a tiny percentage of people who do want to whip out a soldering iron and go to town to put constraints on what the rest of us are allowed to buy. And FYI, I do like to put together a machine every once in a while and fix it and tinker with it. It’s fun. I enjoy it. But that doesn’t mean I have some sort of fundamental human right to make every thing buildable by me, personally. The right to repair is like the right to live your whole life without ever being offended by anything or encounter an idea you find uncomfortable. Enforcing your personal right abrogates other people’s rights and denies other people things they like to say, think, and buy. But the real truth is that the right to repair always boils down to some clown on the internet who read an iFixit tear down and thinks, “man, I could make my own i-whatever for, like a hundred bucks if only Apple could be forced to sell me all the parts in exactly the right configuration at a price that only accounts for the bare basic raw materials. If you want the fancy things, pay for the fancy things. If you want a brick house machine that you can cart through the jungle and swap out a new motherboard every time you drop it in a river, then buy one of those. No one is stopping you. The choice you want to have already exists.
  - simion314 7y ago
    You are covering up the actual facts:" 1 if you publish Apples repair manuals apple with come after you, explain me how is this hurting the consumer, how is this making your phone thinker ? 2 Apple is preventing imports of parts from refurbished hardware, is this helping with the phone dimensions? 3 I don't want to repair my computer, I want others to repair them for me, It is idiotic(your words) to insinuate that people want to fix stuff themselves, it is not, is it possible to stop repeating this "idiotic" statement??? 4 some companies introduce DRM to prevent fixing stuff, is this helping the consumer? how? if I have 2 identical broken laptops and I want to move parts from A to B to get 1 working one why should DRM prevent this? Is is my hardware, I have the right to use it as I want, it is a right to do with my property what I want if I do not hurt others, Please, please let me know why DRM should prevent me do what I want with my hardware, About your thing phone statements, I am not proposing hardware companies make them like LEGOs, If they make it so fixing a key means replacing the entire phone or laptop the company will pay through their nose when the keys start failing, so I personally I am not your target for thin phones rage.
Chazprime 7y ago
The issue with Macs is that repairing one often isn't a straightforward process. My current MacBook Pro had video issues when I first got it; I was lucky to have Apple replace it on the spot, but often options for repair through Apple are very time-consuming and often costly.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  And the real issue here is that this is an absolutely unacceptable level of service for a company that tries to sell itself as a premium brand. A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours. Given Apple's margins and market cap, the fact that Apple refuses to offer a similar level of service even as part of a paid support contract is a symptom of complacency and outright penny-pinching greed. And short-sightedness. It's a fair bet that legendary customer support would do some wonderfully positive things for the Apple brand - and perhaps even for profits. But Cook seems too busy disappointing customers and counting his pile of beans and to consider that as a possibility.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    > A long time ago I had a Dell laptop. When there was a problem Dell arranged an onsite and it was fixed within 24 hours. I have had a similar experience with Dell - and on a laptop that cost a fair bit less than a MacBook Pro, FWIW.

rzwitserloot 7y ago

There's a tradeoff involved. Not always, but often: Either [A] the part is easy to access and replace, or [B] the part fits in a smaller space or the hardware can be faster and less likely to fail in the first place. If you would prefer to trade away smaller, faster, and more robust for accessibility, you should do that. MacBooks are for the folks who side with [B] a lot, and they make that fairly clear. NB: Of course, sometimes there is a 'tradeoff' where a part of the device is basically just crappier for no real gain, and sometimes the non-standard part's primary gain is 'cheaper', which can be an upside, but it can also be some nickel-and-dime baloney that is clearly a bad tradeoff and the company making the device is trying to get away with it hoping nobody notices. I'm not talking about those tradeoffs. Examples: * Using a non-standard screen connector cable because all the available standards do not allow for a single cable to connect device to screen (the case with imacs) * The effect of soldering the RAM straight onto the motherboard (much smaller and more robust; banging a laptop into a corner is less likely to unseat soldered-on RAM than RAM in a replaceable bay whose engineering is focused more on it being really small than the connection being particularly robust. Yes, YOU can fix it, but your average user perhaps isn't quite as cavalier at opening it all up). * A single replaceable battery is nice, but if you just glue a bunch of packs in there you can fill every nook and cranny. For what it is worth, apple is still trying to make this as replaceable as possible within reason: I've done a battery replacement on a non-retina macbook air 11, and the 4 separate packs are glued onto a sheet of plastic so you can remove the entire assembly (after disconnecting various ribbons). Separate from that, there's the notion of 'whose responsibility is it?' – this is a more hairy topic. If you open up your own PC and stick a giant, overclocked CPU in there and then attach a teensy tiny cooler to it all, perhaps due to unfortunate circumstance some of the capacitors on the motherboard blow up due to the excessive heat wafting off of the CPU, which manages to peg itself to 90ºC and survives. If you then make a warranty claim vs. the manufacturer, that feels inappropriate. A manufacturer that tries to stop this from happening would either have to excessively spec out the precise limits of what you can and cannot do (a good idea, but such rules need wiggle room, which means it can't be as fast/small/cutting-edge as it could be), or do what apple does and basically say: Hey, if a qualified apple service engineer isn't doing the work, you're on your own. I'm not exactly happy with this state of affairs, but I don't see a strictly better alternative either.

lloeki 7y ago

Based on this information I infer that you have a desktop machine. If you had a PC laptop you’d be equally screwed, with zero chance the shop had a spare motherboard for your machine. Granted you’d be equally screwed with a Mac Mini or iMac but fundamentally this has nothing to do with Apple vs PC. Desktop PCs that can be changed with standard parts or even custom built are not the market norm anymore and entered the specialised market realm long ago. Your post also reads very much as "You're wrong to use Apple" but you have to realise that they produce a very reasonable solution for many. My use case covers a wide spectrum of mobility, security, dev, music, and photo/video editing, and while alternatives can do things like that they won't do so as efficiently and with the same quality across that whole spectrum for me. It would be foolish to shoot myself in the foot by nerfing my workflows every single minute of the day for a rare event. I do have a spare machine (which does not need to be the latest and greatest so can come out pretty cheap), which allows me a very quick turnover to continue working, well within an hour of a fatal failure (and that's even though I have an Apple Store 5 min away from my place).

simion314 7y ago
Not true,IMO 1 I would have got the person at the shop check it and tell me if I need a new laptop or a new part, this happened to a laptop of mine and I decided I would get a new laptop, then the shop person offered to buy the display and RAM from me and I sold it, so a different person would be able to fix his laptop 2 a spare part can be found from a different laptop or ordered online by the shop, so they can order it at the time I arrived with my broken laptop I don't think that I would have been screwed but let me know if you still disagree.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  So other laptops are exactly like macbooks, but presumably the spare parts are less prevalent?
  - simion314 7y ago
    No, the laptop was old and not in a great condition, I would have to buy new motherboard,CPU and who knows what, I preferred not to invest my money into that and get a new one.

sureaboutthis 7y ago

That's why I would never buy a Ferrari. In my small town, I wouldn't be able to find anyone to work on it. What a crap car.

simion314 7y ago
Do you insinuate that Apple hardware is a fashion statement and not for real work? If I live in a big city can I get my iMac/MacBook fixed without scheduling in 1-2 hours? I seen the LTT saga with the iMac where they could not fix it so it would be like you crash your Ferarri and you have to wait for them to first train the mechanics and create the spare parts and after that have it fixed.
- sureaboutthis 7y ago
  Absolutely not! I haven't a clue why you think that. My point is, the guy I responded to complains that he can get his commodity hardware fixed anywhere while his Apple needs to be taken to a "specialty" store as if they were the same thing.
  - simion314 7y ago
    can you respond to this :c an you get it unscheduled repairs from Apple in the same day? I had more then 1 point, let me be more clear: 1 I had more then one repair shop in a small city, so I have choices 2 I got the unscheduled issue diagnosed and fixed in max 2 hours 3 I even made a GPU upgrade and I had choices AMD or NVIDIA Btw even living in a village I can get things fixed like any other people, like when a new thing I bought broke in the first week I sent it back, it took 3 weeks to have it replaced but it works on small villages too. My example was about a PC that was important for my work and that was out of warranty, though with PCs, in the way I buy them I have warranty for each part so I have the option to go in the town, have someone test and replace the broken part(maybe I buy a cheap GPU or RAM) and send only the broken part back.
    - lancesells 7y ago