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Lenovo Shipping Ubuntu Linux on 2019 ThinkPad

239 points by alexanderdmitri 7y ago

IloveHN84 7y ago
Yeah but it would be cool to have a Zen2 AMD processor instead of a Zen+
- Osiris 7y ago
  AMD doesn't have any mobile processors with Zen2 yet, so it would be hard for them to offer it. I hope they'll be available within a year.
meruru 7y ago
Crossing fingers for China to adopt Linux rather than make their own thing in response to the US export restrictions.
- TkTech 7y ago
  China has used its own FreeBSD (kylin) and then ubuntu-based (neokylin) since 2001. Nearly half of all laptops are sold with it. Likewise, North Korea has Red Star since 2008 which is mandatory or risk forced labor. While kylin isn't too far off from a traditional distro, officers will force you to install rootkits on both desktop/laptops and phones (JingWang). If you're caught later with it missing you will most likely disappear. Red Star is horrifically oppressive and monitors everything you do. The GPL is of course ignored and very few changes are ever released. Trying to circumvent the restrictions causes the OS to self destruct. The few applications you can use watermark every file you create. Long story short them creating linux-based distros is just an easy way for them to exert total control. It does nothing positive for the Linux or BSD ecosystem.
  - meruru 7y ago
    It is my impression that despite initiatives like Kylin and Deepin, most of China is still on Windows. Am I wrong? They adopting Linux would mean their hardware would work with it and developers targeting the Chinese market would have to make their programs work on Linux. That's all I'm hoping for.
    - megla_ 7y ago
      I was pretty sure you're correct, but I double checked just to be sure [0]. I've read an article about the rampancy of piracy in China and Microsoft earning next-to-nothing. Last I remember is they're just leaving them alone, while trying to develop a new way to profit off of them. [0] ~ http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/all/china/2016 http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/all/china/2016
    - baybal2 7y ago
      WinXP is pretty much is a "national OS" by default. Loaded to the top with antiviruses and other crapware to keep it running. Why XP? Too much hardware comes with XP only drivers. Too much important stuff like tax/bank software was written decades ago for XP, and never ported to never OSes because developers moved on years ago.
  - _Donny 7y ago
    It has always amazed me that North Korea is able to create an OS like Red Star. I assume it takes a lot of knowledge and skill to stitch together such an OS, with fairly "unique" spying features not really seen in other distros. Considering the limited access to the internet and not being able to ask StackOverflow users, how can they even manage building such a complex piece of software?
    - meruru 7y ago
      It's just a Linux distro. Anyone can make one.
      - _Donny 7y ago
        Yes, but even though I myself have created my own Linux distro, I would absolutely not be able to do that with restricted internet access, without access to the guide-books, and without the help of IRC. I suspect this would be the case for most of my developer friends as well.
        meruru 7y ago
        I'm sure they can get access to necessary documentation. If anything it must be easier to do it without the distractions of the web.
        thinkingemote 7y ago
        The distros are not being created by independent developers and then the state uses the distros, the distros are being made by the very state itself. The same organisation that will lift internet access and guide books and send their staff overseas to get training.
        robdachshund 7y ago
        ...uh that's because they are made by the state. I'd imagine "RED STAR" is not an open source project maintained by civilians...
      - sametmax 7y ago
  - simonh 7y ago
    >If you're caught later with it missing you will most likely disappear. That could well be true in North Korea, but Chinese really isn’t like that. They have a very active tech industry so installing and experimenting with Linux distros and such that might not have monitoring software is fine. As long as you don’t do something openly suspect, like post something considered anti government, they just leave people alone. I have relatives in China who have desktops and laptops and never come across Kylin. As far as I know it’s mainly used by the military and government departments.
    - TkTech 7y ago
      That comment refers to JingWang not the OS. If you were an individual forced to install it you are added to a registry. If you live in a particular city, it is mandatory. If you are part of a particular minority, it is mandatory. Refusing to install it or prove its installation if your national identity is in the registry is a crime and you wil be arrested. Beijing is not Kashgar. Many Chinese will experience relative freedom and others live in city-sized prisons.
      - dis-sys 7y ago
        This article and thread is about pre-installed Linux on some recently announced laptops. Could you please stop trying to politicize everything in every possible way?
        SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Much as I also grow tired of the constant shoehorning of China into every single conversation here, in this instance Lenovo is a Chinese company so it's at least somewhat relevant.
        baq 7y ago
        OTOH how is it possible to ignore politics if technology makes politics possible, with the earliest examples being fire and the wheel?
        robdachshund 7y ago
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    > Likewise, North Korea has Red Star since 2008 which is mandatory or risk forced labor. I wonder how true that really is, given the proliferation of ancient (i.e. pre-XP) versions of Windows in heavy use over there.
    - TkTech 7y ago
      The government still uses a majority mix of Windows and some OSX for the upper classes. For anyone else it's very much mandatory, and you need to be on a national registry just to legally own a computer, which is also how they ensure you update.
jgaa 7y ago
Finally! Last fall I bought a Lenovo Legion with 'DOS', in stead of a ThinkPad P (with the same CPU), primarily because of the Windows Tax.
fulafel 7y ago
Click saver: for desktop replacement Pxx models only.
- oever 7y ago
  Which have NVIDIA graphics cards.
  - Eldt 7y ago
    Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
    - oarsinsync 7y ago
      In the context of running Linux, I suspect the parent was alluding to that nvidia only provide binary blob drivers rather than open drivers.
      - gurkendoktor 7y ago
        Besides being proprietary, the whole dual-GPU switching setup is generally more troublesome than a single-GPU design. Even on macOS you can feel a subtle delta in glitchiness between Intel-only and mixed-GPU machines. Plus Nvidia drivers are the least likely to support Wayland in the near future.
- obtino 7y ago
  The P1 is a great light-weight desktop replacement.
jeena 7y ago
This is great news, last year I was looking at Lenovo laptops but went for Dell because they offered Linux and I wanted to vote with my wallet. And it seems to have helped!
paulcarroty 7y ago
Lenovo caught for unremovable crapware in BIOS, so I don't recommend to buy their products anymore. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...
- lucb1e 7y ago
  I was wondering what "crapware in BIOS" is, it turns out to be software in the UEFI/BIOS system that installs software in your Windows install. I doubt I'll be affected as a Linux user. And it's a little short sighted to go "they did something wrong in 2015 on Windows, let's just exclude one of the vendors shipping Linux because there are so many others already".
  - josteink 7y ago
    It was a shit move of Lenovo, but yes, it affected Windows-users only, and after public outcry they immediately reversed and removed it. Holding grudges about this in 2019 as a Linux-user seems very misguided, or worse, uninformed.
- Jonnax 7y ago
  The link you posted is about someone hacking Windows 3.1 into their own laptop's UEFI. There's no reason for Lenovo to put a DOS based operating system into their BIOS :/
- Stratoscope 7y ago
  Your second link is about someone who flashed their own copy of Windows 3.1 into the boot ROM of their own ThinkPad X200. Lenovo didn't put Windows 3.1 there, that user did. Your first link is about Lenovo's IdeaPad line. IdeaPad and ThinkPad could well be thought of as products from two different companies. Lenovo was already making laptops when they bought the ThinkPad line from IBM. Their own laptops evolved into the consumer oriented IdeaPad line, while ThinkPad remained the business oriented line. They're both part of Lenovo, but are largely separate teams with different business goals and philosophies. In particular, ThinkPads were never infested with any of the stuff you're talking about. Here is the original notice from Lenovo about this. No ThinkPads are listed: https://web.archive.org/web/20190303121854/https://news.lenovo.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2013 https://web.archive.org/web/20190303121854/https://news.leno...
lucb1e 7y ago
Yay, more options for not paying Microsoft taxes anymore. Microsoft's policy is that the vendor must have a policy on refunding licenses, but whenever I ask for a refund with a new laptop, the procedure is forwarding me to five different people because nobody knows and the last one goes "are you kidding me" and "no". The policy could be "go away", but not having a policy is the only thing that's not allowed. Unsurprisingly, Microsoft doesn't really mind and keeps shipping OSes to vendors that don't follow their license agreement.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  Sounds like a class action to me.
INTPenis 7y ago
Is windows tax really that bad? I mean I can get an OEM license for 12 dollars most of the time because of promotions. So if I as a consumer pay 12 dollars for an OEM version, I would expect Lenovo to pay much less. Also my first observation is that these laptops are far too big and powerful for my work with Linux. I work full time in Linux but I focus more on weight and form factor than CPU and GPU because all my work is done in terminals. The X280 or X1 are perfect for me. No dedicated GPU means slim form factor, light weight, and everything I need for my type of work in Gnome and Terminal.
- stakhanov 7y ago
  Besides the windows tax aspect there is also the aspect of a vendor taking a bit of responsibility around what the user experience (hardware support etc) is like when running linux on their hardware. Offering an option for shipping with linux seems to serve as a catalyst for that.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    I'd be a little surprised if that actually happens. Most likely they're shipping Linux for webdevs and people who want to avoid the Windows tax, neither of which they'll care much about supporting.
- butteroverflow 7y ago
  Personally I have no desire to buy a license which is being shoved down my throat against my will. It's a matter of principle, not of the sum involved.
- dgzl 7y ago
  I mean, there's a substantial effort to developing the gaming platform on Linux. Maybe that's their audience?
  - INTPenis 7y ago
    From what I've seen that effort seems to be going into proprietary platforms like Stadia. There no guarantee that will trickle down to the open source community.
LeonM 7y ago
I own an 4K X1-extreme, which is basically the P1 without the Quadro card and Xeon/ECC option. I run Ubuntu 19.04 on it and have so many problems. - Grub has ridiculous performance issues on 4K screens, it renders at less than 1 fps, making it a real pain to do anything in it. - You can't update the bios through Linux, the update tool is windows only. - The Lenovo TB3 dock never works properly. - The dual GPU situation (Intel + nVidia) requires all sorts of hacks to make it somewhat workable. - The power usage is an abomination under Linux as it can't properly scale the nVidia GPU. - Working with the TPM under Linux feels hacky, but maybe that's mostly due to my lack of experience and the lack of documentation. OK, so all these problems are all due to my specific situation (running dual boot, and an external 4K display through the TB3 dock), but I really, really hope they start fixing these issues if they are going to officially support Ubuntu. One plus though: due to the high power consumption under Linux, the coil whine is a lot less notable...
- josteink 7y ago
  > You can't update the bios through Linux, the update tool is windows only. They offer ISO-images for these updates too. You can also create a USB-bootable version from these using the geteltorito tool (which is available via apt). https://workaround.org/article/updating-the-bios-on-lenovo-laptops-from-linux-using-a-usb-flash-stick/ https://workaround.org/article/updating-the-bios-on-lenovo-l... Edit: > OK, so all these problems are all due to my specific situation (running dual boot Why are you using GRUB to dual-boot at all? Your machine has UEFI for that.
  - pedrocr 7y ago
    I've done that in the past but apparently now there's even native support for updates from Linux: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devicelist https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devicelist
    - ascii_only 7y ago
      And if you use stock Ubuntu with GNOME it should be preinstalled and your updates should appear in Software Center
chungus 7y ago
I am so psyched about this.
enriquto 7y ago
The article does not seem to be true. I want to buy one right now, but the only OS that are offered for each P model are different versions of windows.
- nhumrich 7y ago
  The article is true, you just interpreted it incorrectly. > Will be available this month It doesn't say "right now"
  - enriquto 7y ago
    Just to nitpick, the whole sentence is "Applicable models can be configured with Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, and will be available this month." The first part of the sentence is written in the present tense and it is not true. The second part, it may be true or not, we'll see...
Aissen 7y ago
It seems that Lenovo has been certifying their model for Ubuntu (probably for enterprise customers) for a quite a long time. There are a bit less models recently, but a few already have an Ubuntu 18.04 certification: https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/models/?query=&category=Laptop&level=Any&release=18.04+LTS&vendors=Lenovo https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/models/?query=&cate...
- pedrocr 7y ago
  I didn't find confirmation but I assume being certified with 14.04 and 16.04 means they're still certified with 18.04. Assuming that's the case they've certified pretty much their whole range.
  - Aissen 7y ago
    Yes, if you manage to buy the exact same hardware. Unfortunately with laptops, the hardware configs change at best every year, and at worst every quarter, for a single model family. And often you don't know the exact model before buying it from a reseller.
- karussell 7y ago
  I can confirm that "everything works" is true for at least my T460. For Ubuntu 18.04 you even get BIOS updates via software updates. Battery life is also very good. With Ubuntu now again on Gnome I cannot complain. Under Ubuntu 16.04 I had occasionally problems where I needed to restart the network manager to see new wifi networks (wifi itself was always stable!), but this minor thing is also no issue anymore. Recently my CPU broke down and I was "lucky" to try out the on-site warranty to replace my mainboard, which was not perfect (took a few days compared to the advertised "next business day"), but better compared to sending your stuff somewhere or searching your repair shop. Also note that I do not use any nvidia graphics or 3d games. Just have not tried it and I know this could be a weak point. Videos etc work flawlessly though. It is also no "free hardware" (bios etc). For an alternative in that regard I recommend to have a look into the nice Librem line from Purism: https://puri.sm/products/ https://puri.sm/products/
- bubblethink 7y ago
VitoVan 7y ago
And still have a WIN key on the keyboard? That always frustrated me.
jason_slack 7y ago
I'm running 18.04.2 on a Thinkpad L460 (32gb RAM, SSD). It's an older laptop. I always get nervous to upgrade because it seems everything works with the L460. Wifi, Dock, wired etc, trackpad, etc. It has mad me return to Linus for day-to-day work again. I don't want to loose this feeling.
lelf 7y ago
See also: https://www.lenovo.com/linux https://www.lenovo.com/linux (the list of ”Linux certified” hardware).
nudq 7y ago
Interesting, and a sigh that the area of the Windows tax may be ending. Windows is now an ad delivery platform. That probably sounded like a great plan to MS management, but consumer Windows is now on its way to shovelware status. Microsoft will end up paying hardware makers to include it.
throw2016 7y ago
Running Ubuntu 16.04 on a Zenbook UX360 with a 4K screen and frankly its working much better than expected. The 4K display is automatically scaled, all the brightness and function buttons work, no issues with display drivers, wifi, bluetooth, suspend and it pretty surprising to see this kind of experience out of the box. And its really fast and smooth. Even battery life is good if not excellent, around 8 hours on windows and 7 on Ubuntu for browsing, youtube, some spreadsheets and terminal. For those of us who have tried to get Linux working on laptops 5-10 years ago this is quite a jump so clearly people have been working on this in the background to get to this state. Was using WSL earlier but after Ubuntu worked so well may as well use it. Of course for those who use Windows only apps WSL remains a good option. Also have an Matebook 13 and tried Ubuntu after this experience on the Zenbook and there too it worked out of the box on a hi-res screen with dual graphics but you need to use either the prime drivers to use both, or use bbswitch to put off the Nvidia card for the best battery life. So it seems for recent laptops Linux works pretty well out of the box.
karmakaze 7y ago
Does anyone know if any of these models (or any high-end Thinkpad) has a taller than 16x9 screen? Without that this news is only of precursory value to me.
ldng 7y ago
Thinkpad A486 on Debian 10 here. Both ethernet chip and WiFi chip requires firmware so install is not straight forward. Wireless driver is marked as alpha and it shows ... weekly hard freeze on the menu. A shame as it could be a great laptop.
rv-de 7y ago
Linux Mint 19 all the way. Run's flawlessly on my s/o's Acer, my father's T530 and my T450.
chillytoes 7y ago
This company sells ThinkPads with pre-installed Linux: https://shop.lacpdx.com/ https://shop.lacpdx.com/. Presumably they only sell models which work well under Linux.
galkk 7y ago
If it will work flawlessly with - external dual monitor setup (one/both 4k) via docking station - battery usage - fix the throttling and power management issues it will be great, otherwise it will be the same miserable experience out of the box that you're getting now. (I own X1 Extreme 2018, like it, but stick to windows).
yellowapple 7y ago
My main issue with Lenovo's mobile workstations (and why I've yet to buy one) is that they all use Nvidia for their secondary GPUs. Meanwhile, Dell's Precision line offers the option of AMD GPUs (e.g. my Precision 7510, which I got specifically because it shipped with a FirePro card). That said, I've been pretty happy with my T470 at work (running Slackware), so an integrated-GPU-only ThinkPad that ships with Ubuntu sounds interesting (or even an Nvidia-GPU ThinkPad if they've managed to make Intel/Nvidia hybrid setups less painful). I'd probably be willing to pick up one of the all-AMD ThinkPads (I've got my eye on the T495, E595, and X395; all of them seem to have the same CPU and integrated GPU offerings, though the E595 offers way more RAM so that gives it a bit of an advantage); none of those offer preinstalled Ubuntu, though.

IloveHN84 7y ago

Yeah but it would be cool to have a Zen2 AMD processor instead of a Zen+

Osiris 7y ago
AMD doesn't have any mobile processors with Zen2 yet, so it would be hard for them to offer it. I hope they'll be available within a year.

meruru 7y ago

Crossing fingers for China to adopt Linux rather than make their own thing in response to the US export restrictions.

TkTech 7y ago
China has used its own FreeBSD (kylin) and then ubuntu-based (neokylin) since 2001. Nearly half of all laptops are sold with it. Likewise, North Korea has Red Star since 2008 which is mandatory or risk forced labor. While kylin isn't too far off from a traditional distro, officers will force you to install rootkits on both desktop/laptops and phones (JingWang). If you're caught later with it missing you will most likely disappear. Red Star is horrifically oppressive and monitors everything you do. The GPL is of course ignored and very few changes are ever released. Trying to circumvent the restrictions causes the OS to self destruct. The few applications you can use watermark every file you create. Long story short them creating linux-based distros is just an easy way for them to exert total control. It does nothing positive for the Linux or BSD ecosystem.
- meruru 7y ago
  It is my impression that despite initiatives like Kylin and Deepin, most of China is still on Windows. Am I wrong? They adopting Linux would mean their hardware would work with it and developers targeting the Chinese market would have to make their programs work on Linux. That's all I'm hoping for.
  - megla_ 7y ago
    I was pretty sure you're correct, but I double checked just to be sure [0]. I've read an article about the rampancy of piracy in China and Microsoft earning next-to-nothing. Last I remember is they're just leaving them alone, while trying to develop a new way to profit off of them. [0] ~ http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/all/china/2016 http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/all/china/2016
  - baybal2 7y ago
    WinXP is pretty much is a "national OS" by default. Loaded to the top with antiviruses and other crapware to keep it running. Why XP? Too much hardware comes with XP only drivers. Too much important stuff like tax/bank software was written decades ago for XP, and never ported to never OSes because developers moved on years ago.
- _Donny 7y ago
  It has always amazed me that North Korea is able to create an OS like Red Star. I assume it takes a lot of knowledge and skill to stitch together such an OS, with fairly "unique" spying features not really seen in other distros. Considering the limited access to the internet and not being able to ask StackOverflow users, how can they even manage building such a complex piece of software?
  - meruru 7y ago
    It's just a Linux distro. Anyone can make one.
    - _Donny 7y ago
      Yes, but even though I myself have created my own Linux distro, I would absolutely not be able to do that with restricted internet access, without access to the guide-books, and without the help of IRC. I suspect this would be the case for most of my developer friends as well.
      - meruru 7y ago
        I'm sure they can get access to necessary documentation. If anything it must be easier to do it without the distractions of the web.
      - thinkingemote 7y ago
        The distros are not being created by independent developers and then the state uses the distros, the distros are being made by the very state itself. The same organisation that will lift internet access and guide books and send their staff overseas to get training.
      - robdachshund 7y ago
        ...uh that's because they are made by the state. I'd imagine "RED STAR" is not an open source project maintained by civilians...
    - sametmax 7y ago
- simonh 7y ago
  >If you're caught later with it missing you will most likely disappear. That could well be true in North Korea, but Chinese really isn’t like that. They have a very active tech industry so installing and experimenting with Linux distros and such that might not have monitoring software is fine. As long as you don’t do something openly suspect, like post something considered anti government, they just leave people alone. I have relatives in China who have desktops and laptops and never come across Kylin. As far as I know it’s mainly used by the military and government departments.
  - TkTech 7y ago
    That comment refers to JingWang not the OS. If you were an individual forced to install it you are added to a registry. If you live in a particular city, it is mandatory. If you are part of a particular minority, it is mandatory. Refusing to install it or prove its installation if your national identity is in the registry is a crime and you wil be arrested. Beijing is not Kashgar. Many Chinese will experience relative freedom and others live in city-sized prisons.
    - dis-sys 7y ago
      This article and thread is about pre-installed Linux on some recently announced laptops. Could you please stop trying to politicize everything in every possible way?
      - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Much as I also grow tired of the constant shoehorning of China into every single conversation here, in this instance Lenovo is a Chinese company so it's at least somewhat relevant.
      - baq 7y ago
        OTOH how is it possible to ignore politics if technology makes politics possible, with the earliest examples being fire and the wheel?
      - robdachshund 7y ago
- yellowapple 7y ago
  > Likewise, North Korea has Red Star since 2008 which is mandatory or risk forced labor. I wonder how true that really is, given the proliferation of ancient (i.e. pre-XP) versions of Windows in heavy use over there.
  - TkTech 7y ago
    The government still uses a majority mix of Windows and some OSX for the upper classes. For anyone else it's very much mandatory, and you need to be on a national registry just to legally own a computer, which is also how they ensure you update.

jgaa 7y ago

Finally! Last fall I bought a Lenovo Legion with 'DOS', in stead of a ThinkPad P (with the same CPU), primarily because of the Windows Tax.

fulafel 7y ago

Click saver: for desktop replacement Pxx models only.

oever 7y ago
Which have NVIDIA graphics cards.
- Eldt 7y ago
  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
  - oarsinsync 7y ago
    In the context of running Linux, I suspect the parent was alluding to that nvidia only provide binary blob drivers rather than open drivers.
    - gurkendoktor 7y ago
      Besides being proprietary, the whole dual-GPU switching setup is generally more troublesome than a single-GPU design. Even on macOS you can feel a subtle delta in glitchiness between Intel-only and mixed-GPU machines. Plus Nvidia drivers are the least likely to support Wayland in the near future.
obtino 7y ago
The P1 is a great light-weight desktop replacement.

jeena 7y ago

This is great news, last year I was looking at Lenovo laptops but went for Dell because they offered Linux and I wanted to vote with my wallet. And it seems to have helped!

paulcarroty 7y ago

Lenovo caught for unremovable crapware in BIOS, so I don't recommend to buy their products anymore. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...

lucb1e 7y ago
I was wondering what "crapware in BIOS" is, it turns out to be software in the UEFI/BIOS system that installs software in your Windows install. I doubt I'll be affected as a Linux user. And it's a little short sighted to go "they did something wrong in 2015 on Windows, let's just exclude one of the vendors shipping Linux because there are so many others already".
- josteink 7y ago
  It was a shit move of Lenovo, but yes, it affected Windows-users only, and after public outcry they immediately reversed and removed it. Holding grudges about this in 2019 as a Linux-user seems very misguided, or worse, uninformed.
Jonnax 7y ago
The link you posted is about someone hacking Windows 3.1 into their own laptop's UEFI. There's no reason for Lenovo to put a DOS based operating system into their BIOS :/
Stratoscope 7y ago
Your second link is about someone who flashed their own copy of Windows 3.1 into the boot ROM of their own ThinkPad X200. Lenovo didn't put Windows 3.1 there, that user did. Your first link is about Lenovo's IdeaPad line. IdeaPad and ThinkPad could well be thought of as products from two different companies. Lenovo was already making laptops when they bought the ThinkPad line from IBM. Their own laptops evolved into the consumer oriented IdeaPad line, while ThinkPad remained the business oriented line. They're both part of Lenovo, but are largely separate teams with different business goals and philosophies. In particular, ThinkPads were never infested with any of the stuff you're talking about. Here is the original notice from Lenovo about this. No ThinkPads are listed: https://web.archive.org/web/20190303121854/https://news.lenovo.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2013 https://web.archive.org/web/20190303121854/https://news.leno...

lucb1e 7y ago

Yay, more options for not paying Microsoft taxes anymore. Microsoft's policy is that the vendor must have a policy on refunding licenses, but whenever I ask for a refund with a new laptop, the procedure is forwarding me to five different people because nobody knows and the last one goes "are you kidding me" and "no". The policy could be "go away", but not having a policy is the only thing that's not allowed. Unsurprisingly, Microsoft doesn't really mind and keeps shipping OSes to vendors that don't follow their license agreement.

RandomBacon 7y ago
Sounds like a class action to me.

INTPenis 7y ago

Is windows tax really that bad? I mean I can get an OEM license for 12 dollars most of the time because of promotions. So if I as a consumer pay 12 dollars for an OEM version, I would expect Lenovo to pay much less. Also my first observation is that these laptops are far too big and powerful for my work with Linux. I work full time in Linux but I focus more on weight and form factor than CPU and GPU because all my work is done in terminals. The X280 or X1 are perfect for me. No dedicated GPU means slim form factor, light weight, and everything I need for my type of work in Gnome and Terminal.

stakhanov 7y ago
Besides the windows tax aspect there is also the aspect of a vendor taking a bit of responsibility around what the user experience (hardware support etc) is like when running linux on their hardware. Offering an option for shipping with linux seems to serve as a catalyst for that.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  I'd be a little surprised if that actually happens. Most likely they're shipping Linux for webdevs and people who want to avoid the Windows tax, neither of which they'll care much about supporting.
butteroverflow 7y ago
Personally I have no desire to buy a license which is being shoved down my throat against my will. It's a matter of principle, not of the sum involved.
dgzl 7y ago
I mean, there's a substantial effort to developing the gaming platform on Linux. Maybe that's their audience?
- INTPenis 7y ago
  From what I've seen that effort seems to be going into proprietary platforms like Stadia. There no guarantee that will trickle down to the open source community.

LeonM 7y ago

I own an 4K X1-extreme, which is basically the P1 without the Quadro card and Xeon/ECC option. I run Ubuntu 19.04 on it and have so many problems. - Grub has ridiculous performance issues on 4K screens, it renders at less than 1 fps, making it a real pain to do anything in it. - You can't update the bios through Linux, the update tool is windows only. - The Lenovo TB3 dock never works properly. - The dual GPU situation (Intel + nVidia) requires all sorts of hacks to make it somewhat workable. - The power usage is an abomination under Linux as it can't properly scale the nVidia GPU. - Working with the TPM under Linux feels hacky, but maybe that's mostly due to my lack of experience and the lack of documentation. OK, so all these problems are all due to my specific situation (running dual boot, and an external 4K display through the TB3 dock), but I really, really hope they start fixing these issues if they are going to officially support Ubuntu. One plus though: due to the high power consumption under Linux, the coil whine is a lot less notable...

josteink 7y ago
> You can't update the bios through Linux, the update tool is windows only. They offer ISO-images for these updates too. You can also create a USB-bootable version from these using the geteltorito tool (which is available via apt). https://workaround.org/article/updating-the-bios-on-lenovo-laptops-from-linux-using-a-usb-flash-stick/ https://workaround.org/article/updating-the-bios-on-lenovo-l... Edit: > OK, so all these problems are all due to my specific situation (running dual boot Why are you using GRUB to dual-boot at all? Your machine has UEFI for that.
- pedrocr 7y ago
  I've done that in the past but apparently now there's even native support for updates from Linux: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devicelist https://fwupd.org/lvfs/devicelist
  - ascii_only 7y ago
    And if you use stock Ubuntu with GNOME it should be preinstalled and your updates should appear in Software Center

chungus 7y ago

I am so psyched about this.

enriquto 7y ago

The article does not seem to be true. I want to buy one right now, but the only OS that are offered for each P model are different versions of windows.

nhumrich 7y ago
The article is true, you just interpreted it incorrectly. > Will be available this month It doesn't say "right now"
- enriquto 7y ago
  Just to nitpick, the whole sentence is "Applicable models can be configured with Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, and will be available this month." The first part of the sentence is written in the present tense and it is not true. The second part, it may be true or not, we'll see...

Aissen 7y ago

It seems that Lenovo has been certifying their model for Ubuntu (probably for enterprise customers) for a quite a long time. There are a bit less models recently, but a few already have an Ubuntu 18.04 certification: https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/models/?query=&category=Laptop&level=Any&release=18.04+LTS&vendors=Lenovo https://certification.ubuntu.com/desktop/models/?query=&cate...

pedrocr 7y ago
I didn't find confirmation but I assume being certified with 14.04 and 16.04 means they're still certified with 18.04. Assuming that's the case they've certified pretty much their whole range.
- Aissen 7y ago
  Yes, if you manage to buy the exact same hardware. Unfortunately with laptops, the hardware configs change at best every year, and at worst every quarter, for a single model family. And often you don't know the exact model before buying it from a reseller.
karussell 7y ago
I can confirm that "everything works" is true for at least my T460. For Ubuntu 18.04 you even get BIOS updates via software updates. Battery life is also very good. With Ubuntu now again on Gnome I cannot complain. Under Ubuntu 16.04 I had occasionally problems where I needed to restart the network manager to see new wifi networks (wifi itself was always stable!), but this minor thing is also no issue anymore. Recently my CPU broke down and I was "lucky" to try out the on-site warranty to replace my mainboard, which was not perfect (took a few days compared to the advertised "next business day"), but better compared to sending your stuff somewhere or searching your repair shop. Also note that I do not use any nvidia graphics or 3d games. Just have not tried it and I know this could be a weak point. Videos etc work flawlessly though. It is also no "free hardware" (bios etc). For an alternative in that regard I recommend to have a look into the nice Librem line from Purism: https://puri.sm/products/ https://puri.sm/products/
bubblethink 7y ago

VitoVan 7y ago

And still have a WIN key on the keyboard? That always frustrated me.

jason_slack 7y ago

I'm running 18.04.2 on a Thinkpad L460 (32gb RAM, SSD). It's an older laptop. I always get nervous to upgrade because it seems everything works with the L460. Wifi, Dock, wired etc, trackpad, etc. It has mad me return to Linus for day-to-day work again. I don't want to loose this feeling.

lelf 7y ago

See also: https://www.lenovo.com/linux https://www.lenovo.com/linux (the list of ”Linux certified” hardware).

nudq 7y ago

Interesting, and a sigh that the area of the Windows tax may be ending. Windows is now an ad delivery platform. That probably sounded like a great plan to MS management, but consumer Windows is now on its way to shovelware status. Microsoft will end up paying hardware makers to include it.

throw2016 7y ago

Running Ubuntu 16.04 on a Zenbook UX360 with a 4K screen and frankly its working much better than expected. The 4K display is automatically scaled, all the brightness and function buttons work, no issues with display drivers, wifi, bluetooth, suspend and it pretty surprising to see this kind of experience out of the box. And its really fast and smooth. Even battery life is good if not excellent, around 8 hours on windows and 7 on Ubuntu for browsing, youtube, some spreadsheets and terminal. For those of us who have tried to get Linux working on laptops 5-10 years ago this is quite a jump so clearly people have been working on this in the background to get to this state. Was using WSL earlier but after Ubuntu worked so well may as well use it. Of course for those who use Windows only apps WSL remains a good option. Also have an Matebook 13 and tried Ubuntu after this experience on the Zenbook and there too it worked out of the box on a hi-res screen with dual graphics but you need to use either the prime drivers to use both, or use bbswitch to put off the Nvidia card for the best battery life. So it seems for recent laptops Linux works pretty well out of the box.

karmakaze 7y ago

Does anyone know if any of these models (or any high-end Thinkpad) has a taller than 16x9 screen? Without that this news is only of precursory value to me.

ldng 7y ago

Thinkpad A486 on Debian 10 here. Both ethernet chip and WiFi chip requires firmware so install is not straight forward. Wireless driver is marked as alpha and it shows ... weekly hard freeze on the menu. A shame as it could be a great laptop.

rv-de 7y ago

Linux Mint 19 all the way. Run's flawlessly on my s/o's Acer, my father's T530 and my T450.

chillytoes 7y ago

This company sells ThinkPads with pre-installed Linux: https://shop.lacpdx.com/ https://shop.lacpdx.com/. Presumably they only sell models which work well under Linux.

galkk 7y ago

If it will work flawlessly with - external dual monitor setup (one/both 4k) via docking station - battery usage - fix the throttling and power management issues it will be great, otherwise it will be the same miserable experience out of the box that you're getting now. (I own X1 Extreme 2018, like it, but stick to windows).

yellowapple 7y ago

My main issue with Lenovo's mobile workstations (and why I've yet to buy one) is that they all use Nvidia for their secondary GPUs. Meanwhile, Dell's Precision line offers the option of AMD GPUs (e.g. my Precision 7510, which I got specifically because it shipped with a FirePro card). That said, I've been pretty happy with my T470 at work (running Slackware), so an integrated-GPU-only ThinkPad that ships with Ubuntu sounds interesting (or even an Nvidia-GPU ThinkPad if they've managed to make Intel/Nvidia hybrid setups less painful). I'd probably be willing to pick up one of the all-AMD ThinkPads (I've got my eye on the T495, E595, and X395; all of them seem to have the same CPU and integrated GPU offerings, though the E595 offers way more RAM so that gives it a bit of an advantage); none of those offer preinstalled Ubuntu, though.