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How do you hold an immortal, amoral entity that can’t be thrown in jail accountable, then? Trivial fines amounting to 0.1% of EBITDA are not the answer.
by pmiller2 7y ago
How do you hold an immortal, amoral entity that can’t be thrown in jail accountable, then? Trivial fines amounting to 0.1% of EBITDA are not the answer.
- AndrewDavis 7y agoYou increase the fines to the point it becomes a fiduciary requirement to behave properly. If fines are low, companies will continue to behave poorly because it may be profitable to do so.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y agoLike we do now: you hit it in the pocketbook with massive fines. Also, the CEO may not go to jail, but the local people actually doing the bribery should.
- pmiller2 7y agoThat’s the problem: we’re not doing that.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y agoPer the friendly article, Walmart has spent over $1 billion total on this (fine, legal fees, investigation), which is a noticeable number even by megacorp standards.
- pmiller2 7y agoLegal and investigative fees are not “massive fines.” Those are optional. They could have admitted guilt 10 years ago and not had to pay them. And, speaking of 10 years, they had that long to spread that billion dollars over. They’ve probably made $300B in that time. $1B is a drop in the bucket.
- ionised 7y ago1 billion is pittance to Walmart
- toomuchequate 7y agoHold them/the company responsible. They should have internal policing. When there are billions at stake, I don't understand why these kind of things aren't torn open by lawyers.
- zaroth 7y agoCompanies (even purely algorithmic ones) are not amoral because they are directly impacted by the ethical and unethical behaviors that they choose. So they are not “unconcerned” with the morality of their actions. Versus for example “technology” which is amoral, because it is itself a tool unaware of the purpose for which it is even being used. Of course companies are also not immortal, companies “die” all the time. However, companies certainly can and do act unethically, particularly when there are economic incentives to do so. A 0.1% of EBITDA fine to Walmart would be hundreds of millions of dollars. They would certainly care about that, and they likely have teams of people who work to ensure compliance for a whole host of regulations which could result in fines at that order of magnitude.
- pmiller2 7y ago.1% of EBITDA is a “cost of doing business” if it makes them .1% + X. Even if it doesn’t, it’s an annoyance. It doesn’t hurt any more than you or me getting a parking fine. You have to make it really, truly hurt the bottom line, because that’s the only language they speak.
- hatboat 7y agoEven then, it's not even a cost of 0.1% EBITDA. It's a cost of 0.1% * p, where p is the probability of actually being caught. How many companies behave unethically because they know full well the will likely get away with it.
- rectang 7y agoCompanies are profit-seeking automatons. They evolve and change in response to their environment, but as entities they are not encumbered by human moral impulses or other embarrassments. Humans operating within companies may experience moral impulses, but the company as an entity constantly urges its humans to act amorally in service of its profit-seeking.
- pmiller2 7y agoFinancial paperclip maximizers, you might say.