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> Walmart was able to negotiate a lower fine after President Trump, who had previously criticized the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, took office. Can anyone ex

by ebg13 7y ago

> Walmart was able to negotiate a lower fine after President Trump, who had previously criticized the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, took office. Can anyone explain a reason why someone who isn't a cad might not agree with the FCPA (ie. for reasons that aren't "money good, ethics bad")? This isn't a dig at Trump. I just don't understand the law well enough to know how angry I should be.

ummonk 7y ago
In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. This doesn’t seem to have happened much in practice though so I support the FCPA. Corruption is a big scourge in many countries and it is a really good thing American money is prohibited from exacerbating the issue.
- ebg13 7y ago
  > In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. This really sounds a lot to me like "money good, ethics bad".
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
    That is basically a summation of “national interests” in the sense that politicians use it.
- mullingitover 7y ago
  > In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. Seems like it would be sensible for the US to push the rest of the world to adopt the same law. We're able to push other countries to adopt our war on drugs laws, why not war on corruption?
  - the_watcher 7y ago
    Many countries do have laws against corruption, but it's so institutionalized that the laws are functionally toothless.
  - shkkmo 7y ago
    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD_Anti-Bribery_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD_Anti-Bribery_Convention
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    In many (most?) countries in the world, the rule of law is not strong enough that you could expect these laws to be meaningfully enforced.
Consultant32452 7y ago
I will just play devil's advocate. Sometimes different cultures have very different ideas about what is an ethical way of doing things. If you're passing judgement on Walmart here, I think you're also passing judgement on Brazilian culture. Of course, you're welcome to do so, and I might even agree with you. But if you want to fine Walmart for doing things the "Brazilian way" while operating in Brazil, then I think if you are going to be a principled person you must also advocate for trade sanctions or other barriers to doing business with Brazil since you think their way of doing things is naughty. I hope you're prepared for a long battle though, because once you get done fussing at the Brazilian people and their culture you've got a very, very long list of other countries you need to be prepared to harass.
- Ensorceled 7y ago
  Does you advocacy extend to other “cultural differences” like child labour, age of consent laws, or indentured servitude?
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    There are some types of culturally accepted behaviors that I would and do get on my soap box and say we shouldn't do business with those places. A little grifting for building permits is not one of those.
- tdeck 7y ago
  That assumes corruption exists in these countries because people are OK with it, but that doesn't square with everything I've read about corruption. It exists because corrupt systems are difficult to dismantle. By analogy, imagine someone from outside the US making the argument that it's "just our culture" that makes it OK for a lobbyist to walk into a senator's office with a $20,000 check in hand ready to discuss policy. That's a situation almost nobody is happy with here - it's not a "cultural difference" but a difference in how power structures have been built up over time through a concerted effort by very small groups in a larger society.
  - 7y ago

by ebg13 7y ago

ummonk 7y ago

In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. This doesn’t seem to have happened much in practice though so I support the FCPA. Corruption is a big scourge in many countries and it is a really good thing American money is prohibited from exacerbating the issue.

ebg13 7y ago
> In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. This really sounds a lot to me like "money good, ethics bad".
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  That is basically a summation of “national interests” in the sense that politicians use it.
mullingitover 7y ago
> In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. Seems like it would be sensible for the US to push the rest of the world to adopt the same law. We're able to push other countries to adopt our war on drugs laws, why not war on corruption?
- the_watcher 7y ago
  Many countries do have laws against corruption, but it's so institutionalized that the laws are functionally toothless.
- shkkmo 7y ago
  See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD_Anti-Bribery_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD_Anti-Bribery_Convention
- umanwizard 7y ago
  In many (most?) countries in the world, the rule of law is not strong enough that you could expect these laws to be meaningfully enforced.

Consultant32452 7y ago

I will just play devil's advocate. Sometimes different cultures have very different ideas about what is an ethical way of doing things. If you're passing judgement on Walmart here, I think you're also passing judgement on Brazilian culture. Of course, you're welcome to do so, and I might even agree with you. But if you want to fine Walmart for doing things the "Brazilian way" while operating in Brazil, then I think if you are going to be a principled person you must also advocate for trade sanctions or other barriers to doing business with Brazil since you think their way of doing things is naughty. I hope you're prepared for a long battle though, because once you get done fussing at the Brazilian people and their culture you've got a very, very long list of other countries you need to be prepared to harass.

Ensorceled 7y ago
Does you advocacy extend to other “cultural differences” like child labour, age of consent laws, or indentured servitude?
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  There are some types of culturally accepted behaviors that I would and do get on my soap box and say we shouldn't do business with those places. A little grifting for building permits is not one of those.
tdeck 7y ago
That assumes corruption exists in these countries because people are OK with it, but that doesn't square with everything I've read about corruption. It exists because corrupt systems are difficult to dismantle. By analogy, imagine someone from outside the US making the argument that it's "just our culture" that makes it OK for a lobbyist to walk into a senator's office with a $20,000 check in hand ready to discuss policy. That's a situation almost nobody is happy with here - it's not a "cultural difference" but a difference in how power structures have been built up over time through a concerted effort by very small groups in a larger society.
- 7y ago