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In everything from technology to culture to aging, Japan seems to be a portent for things yet to happen in the west. We tend to view suburbs as these static pl

by npunt 7y ago

In everything from technology to culture to aging, Japan seems to be a portent for things yet to happen in the west. We tend to view suburbs as these static places that serve a particular purpose for primarily families and where nothing changes. But in fact suburbs are starting to transform into de facto retirement communities as boomers exit the workforce, due in large part to incentives from certain laws that keep them there and prevent development (no comment on who created those laws). One clear example is schools in Cupertino are closing due to declining enrollment - something that certainly doesn't fit the conception of a suburb being a place where families are raised.

crimsonalucard 7y ago
What??? I'm from Cupertino. Haven't been back in ages but I had no idea this was going on. Do you have a source? not that I don't believe you, but I would be interested in learning more.
- astrange 7y ago
  Cupertino residents are incredibly NIMBY and incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in - traffic, you know. The city council they just elected has many great opinions like "Apple employees are too poor to live in Cupertino" and "Men who work at Apple will molest our daughters and hire prostitutes". Right now Vallco mall has been torn down and the city is trying its best to stop an affordable housing development there.
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    Part of problem in Japan: >also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income... Part of problem in US: >Cupertino residents are ... incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in... Sounds like HNUser "npunt" was correct in the assertion that the same thing seems to be going down in both places, and for similar reasons. Difference being that the Japanese are open to using the law in a more stringent manner to keep younger people out.
    - astrange 7y ago
      There's a lot of differences - Japan actually has great zoning and land use laws, and zoning is nationally controlled, so homeowners can't abuse it to raise their own property prices like in California. That's what the "traffic" complaints are excuses for. As a result, housing in Tokyo is a lot cheaper than you'd expect it to be. Still, the issues with public housing aren't surprising. I'm not sure you can get evicted from Section 8 apartments in the US for making more money, but it wouldn't surprise me.
      - freewilly1040 7y ago
        I wonder if the root cause in Tokyo is more their aversion to immigration than any zoning problem
        astrange 7y ago
        The current government (supposedly right-wing) has reformed immigration to the point it's easier to move there than to the US. Your whole family can work, you can get permanent residency in a few years, it's all good. Of course, having a college degree makes it a lot easier. It's not very appealing for Americans because the work culture is pretty bad and pay is low, so you can't get out of student debt, but I met a lot of Asian immigrants last time I was there.
- gyc 7y ago
  https://cupertinotoday.com/2018/01/09/cupertino-school-board-to-mull-potential-5m-in-cuts/ https://cupertinotoday.com/2018/01/09/cupertino-school-board...
FreedomToCreate 7y ago
Article on school enrollment in Cupertino https://outline.com/AVgVLN https://outline.com/AVgVLN
01100011 7y ago
Your comment made me think of how astonished I was at the numbers of elderly in the South Bay when I relocated here. You'd think those folks would have cashed out and moved to a tax friendly state with better weather, but for some reason they've stayed put.
- FreedomToCreate 7y ago
  They have stayed put because there is no where with better weather
  - downrightmike 7y ago
    If they move just a state over, the average temps are over 100 degrees during the day. There are other issues with the heat like an elderly lady died because the power company turned her power off for being $51 behind. https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/aps-cut-power-heat-customer-dead-phoenix-summer-shutoff-11310515 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/aps-cut-power-heat-cust...
  - zem 7y ago
    also a lot of cheaper and more "tax friendly" places tend to be red states.
  - 01100011 7y ago
    As someone over the hill, I can confirm that the older I get, the more heat feels good. There's a reason why Arizona is full of retirees. The cold, humid air in the bay area, especially during winter, is not good for an old body. Now obviously heat can kill the elderly, but if someone cashed out their bay area home and moved, they'd have more than enough money to buy a nice place and run the air conditioner whenever they like. If nothing else, I'd figure they'd move to LA for even better weather and cheaper rent. That doesn't help with the tax situation, but it's something. Maybe they're here for the family connections, but it seems less and less likely to be the case given the exodus of longtime residents from the area. If they don't own a house, I can't see how they'd manage to stay. Renting around here on a fixed income must be brutal.
- 7y ago
gopi 7y ago
This is a issue particular to California because of Prop 13. In many other places in US, the housing stock circulate as people go thro life changes. Not so much in California
- sjg007 7y ago
  Seniors can transfer their property tax from their previous property to the new one.
sjg007 7y ago
One solution for Cupertino would be open enrollment if they haven’t implemented it yet. But there’s an issue where older people don’t sell because there is nothing for them to buy. There’s a big push accessory dwelling units now which basically the owner could move into and either rent or sell the main property. That’s a potential way to create more housing. It’s probably a drop in the bucket though.. I’m not sure if the expected number of ADUs would satisfy much demand.
gdilla 7y ago
one thing that is markedly different is immigration. Japan has minuscule amounts of immigration, and non japanese blood people can't be citizens. In Canada, at least, they recognize we'd all be old white people without the current levels of immigration.
- aikinai 7y ago
  There's no blood requirement to get Japanese citizenship. It's actually easier than many western countries, including the US, for skilled immigrants. They just don't allow much unskilled immigration, which is why the total number is low. And even that is rapidly changing; in particular, a brand new immigration policy was passed this year.

by npunt 7y ago

crimsonalucard 7y ago

What??? I'm from Cupertino. Haven't been back in ages but I had no idea this was going on. Do you have a source? not that I don't believe you, but I would be interested in learning more.

astrange 7y ago
Cupertino residents are incredibly NIMBY and incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in - traffic, you know. The city council they just elected has many great opinions like "Apple employees are too poor to live in Cupertino" and "Men who work at Apple will molest our daughters and hire prostitutes". Right now Vallco mall has been torn down and the city is trying its best to stop an affordable housing development there.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  Part of problem in Japan: >also set strict requirements for younger people who lived there: if your income exceeded a certain threshold, you would be evicted. If you refused, you were charged rent – at potentially up to twice the market rate, depending on your income... Part of problem in US: >Cupertino residents are ... incredibly dedicated to not letting anyone new move in... Sounds like HNUser "npunt" was correct in the assertion that the same thing seems to be going down in both places, and for similar reasons. Difference being that the Japanese are open to using the law in a more stringent manner to keep younger people out.
  - astrange 7y ago
    There's a lot of differences - Japan actually has great zoning and land use laws, and zoning is nationally controlled, so homeowners can't abuse it to raise their own property prices like in California. That's what the "traffic" complaints are excuses for. As a result, housing in Tokyo is a lot cheaper than you'd expect it to be. Still, the issues with public housing aren't surprising. I'm not sure you can get evicted from Section 8 apartments in the US for making more money, but it wouldn't surprise me.
    - freewilly1040 7y ago
      I wonder if the root cause in Tokyo is more their aversion to immigration than any zoning problem
      - astrange 7y ago
        The current government (supposedly right-wing) has reformed immigration to the point it's easier to move there than to the US. Your whole family can work, you can get permanent residency in a few years, it's all good. Of course, having a college degree makes it a lot easier. It's not very appealing for Americans because the work culture is pretty bad and pay is low, so you can't get out of student debt, but I met a lot of Asian immigrants last time I was there.
gyc 7y ago
https://cupertinotoday.com/2018/01/09/cupertino-school-board-to-mull-potential-5m-in-cuts/ https://cupertinotoday.com/2018/01/09/cupertino-school-board...

FreedomToCreate 7y ago

Article on school enrollment in Cupertino https://outline.com/AVgVLN https://outline.com/AVgVLN

01100011 7y ago

Your comment made me think of how astonished I was at the numbers of elderly in the South Bay when I relocated here. You'd think those folks would have cashed out and moved to a tax friendly state with better weather, but for some reason they've stayed put.

FreedomToCreate 7y ago
They have stayed put because there is no where with better weather
- downrightmike 7y ago
  If they move just a state over, the average temps are over 100 degrees during the day. There are other issues with the heat like an elderly lady died because the power company turned her power off for being $51 behind. https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/aps-cut-power-heat-customer-dead-phoenix-summer-shutoff-11310515 https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/aps-cut-power-heat-cust...
- zem 7y ago
  also a lot of cheaper and more "tax friendly" places tend to be red states.
- 01100011 7y ago
  As someone over the hill, I can confirm that the older I get, the more heat feels good. There's a reason why Arizona is full of retirees. The cold, humid air in the bay area, especially during winter, is not good for an old body. Now obviously heat can kill the elderly, but if someone cashed out their bay area home and moved, they'd have more than enough money to buy a nice place and run the air conditioner whenever they like. If nothing else, I'd figure they'd move to LA for even better weather and cheaper rent. That doesn't help with the tax situation, but it's something. Maybe they're here for the family connections, but it seems less and less likely to be the case given the exodus of longtime residents from the area. If they don't own a house, I can't see how they'd manage to stay. Renting around here on a fixed income must be brutal.
7y ago

gopi 7y ago

This is a issue particular to California because of Prop 13. In many other places in US, the housing stock circulate as people go thro life changes. Not so much in California

sjg007 7y ago
Seniors can transfer their property tax from their previous property to the new one.

sjg007 7y ago

One solution for Cupertino would be open enrollment if they haven’t implemented it yet. But there’s an issue where older people don’t sell because there is nothing for them to buy. There’s a big push accessory dwelling units now which basically the owner could move into and either rent or sell the main property. That’s a potential way to create more housing. It’s probably a drop in the bucket though.. I’m not sure if the expected number of ADUs would satisfy much demand.

gdilla 7y ago

one thing that is markedly different is immigration. Japan has minuscule amounts of immigration, and non japanese blood people can't be citizens. In Canada, at least, they recognize we'd all be old white people without the current levels of immigration.

aikinai 7y ago
There's no blood requirement to get Japanese citizenship. It's actually easier than many western countries, including the US, for skilled immigrants. They just don't allow much unskilled immigration, which is why the total number is low. And even that is rapidly changing; in particular, a brand new immigration policy was passed this year.