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>I can't count the number of times my GPS map has shown me driving through a lake, or over flying over a mountain. That's odd because I can count the number of

>I can't count the number of times my GPS map has shown me driving through a lake, or over flying over a mountain. That's odd because I can count the number of times it's happened to me. It's 0. This despite having actually been in the military. Civilian GPS receivers work fine these days, even on military installations. >It's a pretty good indicator that you're near an "undeclared" military facility in the middle of nowhere. What does that even mean? If it's really "undeclared" (I'm taking the scare quotes to imply "secret"), how would you actually be able to verify it?

reaperducer 7y ago
If it's really "undeclared" (I'm taking the scare quotes to imply "secret"), how would you actually be able to verify it? Visually.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  Really? There are a lot of secret military facilities near you that leave tanks or fighter planes lying around or what? For every military base I've ever encountered in my career, the fences with "US Property NO TRESPASSING" signs and giant signs out front warning that you're approaching a military installation were the identifying features. In other words, they were all very much declared. If you took all of the signage away, I think it would be extremely hard to definitively identify most military installations as such from outside the fence. Could you give a link to one of these facilities on Google Maps or something? I'm honestly really curious to see what you're talking about.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    The so called "Area 51" in Nevada has, according to what I've read, a large buffer zone such that guards will intercept you considerably before you get to the fence and signs. I imagine there are other sites like that, where the boundaries are a little ambiguous.
    - 0xffff2 7y ago
      Area 51 is a bit of a unique case in how incredibly mythologized it is. I've never been, so I can't speak from firsthand experience, but my understanding is that it's not so much that the boundary is ambiguous as that the people guarding the facility are sometimes overzealous. In any case, those guards, like the signs, are declaring the presence of a military facility. While the Air Force might prefer that no one really knows what they do there, there's no doubt that it's a military facility. It's a perfect example of why the phrase "undeclared military facility" doesn't make any sense at all.

reaperducer 7y ago

If it's really "undeclared" (I'm taking the scare quotes to imply "secret"), how would you actually be able to verify it? Visually.

0xffff2 7y ago
Really? There are a lot of secret military facilities near you that leave tanks or fighter planes lying around or what? For every military base I've ever encountered in my career, the fences with "US Property NO TRESPASSING" signs and giant signs out front warning that you're approaching a military installation were the identifying features. In other words, they were all very much declared. If you took all of the signage away, I think it would be extremely hard to definitively identify most military installations as such from outside the fence. Could you give a link to one of these facilities on Google Maps or something? I'm honestly really curious to see what you're talking about.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  The so called "Area 51" in Nevada has, according to what I've read, a large buffer zone such that guards will intercept you considerably before you get to the fence and signs. I imagine there are other sites like that, where the boundaries are a little ambiguous.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    Area 51 is a bit of a unique case in how incredibly mythologized it is. I've never been, so I can't speak from firsthand experience, but my understanding is that it's not so much that the boundary is ambiguous as that the people guarding the facility are sometimes overzealous. In any case, those guards, like the signs, are declaring the presence of a military facility. While the Air Force might prefer that no one really knows what they do there, there's no doubt that it's a military facility. It's a perfect example of why the phrase "undeclared military facility" doesn't make any sense at all.