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I don't know why people are so cynical, the results are generally what I would have imagined. Most interesting - the $13/$100 difference. Notice that in the U

I don't know why people are so cynical, the results are generally what I would have imagined. Most interesting - the $13/$100 difference. Notice that in the US and UK, the 'return rate' goes way up when there's $100 in the wallet, but when only $13 it's quite low. In Switzerland and Sweden, it's high even for $13. I think there might be a difference between 'core conscientiousness' and 'meaningful conscientiousness'. In Sweden and Switzerland, it's a matter of propriety to 'return the wallet'. It's appropriate behaviour. They have smaller, tighter communities, you may even know the person. So they 'just do the right thing' because it doesn't matter what's in the wallet. In the US/UK culture the thinking might be $13 - nobody is care, it's not worth the hassle to report. But as soon as there's money, then it becomes a material matter of conscientiousness, i.e. 'people will miss $100, it's worth the effort to report it'. I think $13 is just not really enough money, not that much different from $0. It's almost change. $100 is a nice, meaningful threshold. Finally, China ... ouch. Also, the results are perfectly correlated with transparency international index [1] It's interesting because it may be that 'corruption' is not just a systematic issue in governance, but it may be correlated or predicted with even more basic levels of civic conscientiousness, as measured by tests such as this. [1] https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018 https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018

takamh 7y ago
I wonder if the fact that physical wallets as a construct are undeniably western affect the study in any way. For example, do people even use wallets in China? They've long since focused on electronic payments as opposed to cash. There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  The Chinese invented paper money :) so it's not as though the concept is foreign to any of them. While there might be some differences between cultures in that regard, I think it's kind of a stretch to try to explain away the not very nice data points. I think the data can probably be interpreted in a straight forward manner: if you lose something in China, you're not going to get it back and that's that. It is what it is. "There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study." I think because it would be way out of bounds. Casual commenters such as us have a little space to speculate (unless dang gets fussy), but it'd be too improper for researchers to make assumptions. One major thing missing in this study is the rural/urban divide. I suggest London is not representative in any way of the rest of the UK, and neither is Manchester the same as Penzance. Edit: I should note that the authors do indeed go into trying to find cultural correlates, they go right for '% protestant' etc. and make some fairly speculative comments which I would be uncomfortable with because these are all just correlations. Notably, one of the highest 'correlations' is 'latitude' (!), it's not as though being at a certain latitude makes one more civic. Maybe there are other, related, factors, but it's certainly not latitude.
  - takamh 7y ago
    You missed my point and I don't think it's a stretch, especially if you don't understand their culture. A better analogy would be if you would return a sack of $100 in nickels, I think most people would leave it. I'm not too familiar myself but if the entire country has moved on to mobile payments, people would be less inclined to return obsolete forms of money. Perhaps someone more familiar can explain better.
    - sonnyblarney 7y ago
      I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it. I believe people in China understand very well what paper money is and means, in roughly/ballpark the same terms as Americans. I could be wrong.
      - pests 7y ago
        No one is questioning that China understands paper money. The question is do they store this paper money is wallets? Or is it carried in a pocket? Or do they have full sized binders the money is put in? Or fanny packs? Do they even carry cash anymore?
        sonnyblarney 7y ago
        They use wallets, paper money just like the rest of us. Though there's a recent phenom of 'cashless', cash is still normative, moreover, this is a very recent thing. A 'wallet' in China is the the same thing as a 'wallet' in the USA or Sweden.
        pests 7y ago
        I know that. Or at least assumed that. I just wanted to clarify what my GP was asking as I felt people were taking it too literal. Like how women in the US carry purses. I've never been to another country. Do all cultures use purses? If they do is it both genders or only one? I don't know.
      - 7y ago
- yibg 7y ago
  I don't have any data to back this up, just knowledge about Chinese society. My view is the main driver for the low score for China is the society norm of minding your own business and not getting involved. So it might not be a measure of honesty but rather a measure of being passive. For example, I would assume if instead of having to contact the person, the person just walked over to retrieve the wallet, they'd likely get it back.
bbs787 7y ago
I think the contents of the wallet are too much like junk without the money. Some business cards, a grocery list and a key in a transparent wallet. To me that's almost as junk as finding some fliers and I might think somebody has just thrown it away as litter and $13 is like lunch money. So it has to has $100 so I think "they might want this". If it was a regular wallet full of useful cards, perhaps some sentimental things like photos etc. then I'd want to get it back to them regardless of whether it contained some cash. I think this experiment might work better with a backpack or a mobile phone.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  That's a great point. A grocery list and a business card is hardly 'a wallet'. Even with $13 ... that's still 'a wallet with some lose change'. Without credit cards, id, or some some real money, i.e. 'meaningful to the person who lost it', it's an odd measure.
- woah 7y ago
  The description of the wallet does make it sound like garbage. They probably should have used a higher quality (if well-worn) wallet in the prevailing local style. Lots of issues with this study design in general.
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    Doesn't that just make the results even more interesting? 60+% of "garbage" got returned in Sweden! Why would people return garbage?
Eeeeeelein 7y ago
Thank you for the comment. But the thing is... the researchers have obviously negelected that fact that there are countries where email is NOT that commonly used or the way they think it's used. It's not about being cynical; it's about being objective actually.

takamh 7y ago

I wonder if the fact that physical wallets as a construct are undeniably western affect the study in any way. For example, do people even use wallets in China? They've long since focused on electronic payments as opposed to cash. There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
The Chinese invented paper money :) so it's not as though the concept is foreign to any of them. While there might be some differences between cultures in that regard, I think it's kind of a stretch to try to explain away the not very nice data points. I think the data can probably be interpreted in a straight forward manner: if you lose something in China, you're not going to get it back and that's that. It is what it is. "There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study." I think because it would be way out of bounds. Casual commenters such as us have a little space to speculate (unless dang gets fussy), but it'd be too improper for researchers to make assumptions. One major thing missing in this study is the rural/urban divide. I suggest London is not representative in any way of the rest of the UK, and neither is Manchester the same as Penzance. Edit: I should note that the authors do indeed go into trying to find cultural correlates, they go right for '% protestant' etc. and make some fairly speculative comments which I would be uncomfortable with because these are all just correlations. Notably, one of the highest 'correlations' is 'latitude' (!), it's not as though being at a certain latitude makes one more civic. Maybe there are other, related, factors, but it's certainly not latitude.
- takamh 7y ago
  You missed my point and I don't think it's a stretch, especially if you don't understand their culture. A better analogy would be if you would return a sack of $100 in nickels, I think most people would leave it. I'm not too familiar myself but if the entire country has moved on to mobile payments, people would be less inclined to return obsolete forms of money. Perhaps someone more familiar can explain better.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it. I believe people in China understand very well what paper money is and means, in roughly/ballpark the same terms as Americans. I could be wrong.
    - pests 7y ago
      No one is questioning that China understands paper money. The question is do they store this paper money is wallets? Or is it carried in a pocket? Or do they have full sized binders the money is put in? Or fanny packs? Do they even carry cash anymore?
      - sonnyblarney 7y ago
        They use wallets, paper money just like the rest of us. Though there's a recent phenom of 'cashless', cash is still normative, moreover, this is a very recent thing. A 'wallet' in China is the the same thing as a 'wallet' in the USA or Sweden.
        pests 7y ago
        I know that. Or at least assumed that. I just wanted to clarify what my GP was asking as I felt people were taking it too literal. Like how women in the US carry purses. I've never been to another country. Do all cultures use purses? If they do is it both genders or only one? I don't know.
    - 7y ago
yibg 7y ago
I don't have any data to back this up, just knowledge about Chinese society. My view is the main driver for the low score for China is the society norm of minding your own business and not getting involved. So it might not be a measure of honesty but rather a measure of being passive. For example, I would assume if instead of having to contact the person, the person just walked over to retrieve the wallet, they'd likely get it back.

bbs787 7y ago

I think the contents of the wallet are too much like junk without the money. Some business cards, a grocery list and a key in a transparent wallet. To me that's almost as junk as finding some fliers and I might think somebody has just thrown it away as litter and $13 is like lunch money. So it has to has $100 so I think "they might want this". If it was a regular wallet full of useful cards, perhaps some sentimental things like photos etc. then I'd want to get it back to them regardless of whether it contained some cash. I think this experiment might work better with a backpack or a mobile phone.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
That's a great point. A grocery list and a business card is hardly 'a wallet'. Even with $13 ... that's still 'a wallet with some lose change'. Without credit cards, id, or some some real money, i.e. 'meaningful to the person who lost it', it's an odd measure.
woah 7y ago
The description of the wallet does make it sound like garbage. They probably should have used a higher quality (if well-worn) wallet in the prevailing local style. Lots of issues with this study design in general.
- kalleboo 7y ago
  Doesn't that just make the results even more interesting? 60+% of "garbage" got returned in Sweden! Why would people return garbage?

Eeeeeelein 7y ago

Thank you for the comment. But the thing is... the researchers have obviously negelected that fact that there are countries where email is NOT that commonly used or the way they think it's used. It's not about being cynical; it's about being objective actually.