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What a terrible waste. All this just so they can brag about how thin they are for a couple of minutes during a keynote while customers suffer the consequences

What a terrible waste. All this just so they can brag about how thin they are for a couple of minutes during a keynote while customers suffer the consequences for many years after. I remember the time time when a key became defective on my 2013 MacBook Air. I brought it to an Apple store and they replaced the problematic key and sent me on my way in 5 minutes.

olliej 7y ago
A lot of it is also the structural rigidity and cooling. That said I suspect it is more cost effective and fast for them to just pull out the known functional core and put those in a new shell, then use the old shell as all/part of a refurb system. It makes the customer happy: They get a whole bunch of new stuff, and they get it quickly. It also means the store doesn't have to stock some arbitrary amount of each component - they just have a single heap of shells come in, and a bucket the goes out to be refurbed/recycled as appropriate. As for replacing individual keys I'm still not sure if that can be done easily now (I've not had any problems with the butterfly keyboards, but it's clear that a couple of people might have ;) )
- keldaris 7y ago
  Except it's not fast - apparently it takes 1-2 weeks and if this thread is anything to go by, the customers seem not happy at all. Gluing batteries is just crazy, I didn't even know they do that these days (old Thinkpads for life). Still, people keep buying useless shiny things for exorbitant prices, so Apple must be doing something right. I just don't know what it is - maintainability or easy repairs definitely isn't it.
  - olliej 7y ago
    I assume that that's to give them leeway if anything goes wrong. I think the bigger issue that it's a mail-in repair, so you end up burning a bunch of days on that: * First they send you a shipping box. * Then you put your laptop in it, and get it to a drop off, then you have a few days shipping (I can't imagine they're doing overnight), plus weekend delay. * However long it takes their receiving to get the delivery to wherever they're doing the repairs/replacement * the repair - I suspect that's going to be measured in minutes, but you have a latency due to volume of repairs, which I assume depends on how many machines need to replacements. * I assume some technician puts it back in a box, and it gets sent to their shipping facility * a couple of days for shipping. Put that together, 2 days to ship there, 1 day processing + repair, 2 days to return. So you easily hit the weekend, so now you're at 7 days. If anything goes wrong you've exceeded one week. Which means saying "1-2 weeks" gives them a buffer to ensure it doesn't take longer than they've stated. If they did it in store I imagine it could be same or next day, but by doing it as a ship in/out repair makes it absurd. (I don't think they're exorbitantly priced, yes they cost more, but it's not like the old PPC prices)
dangus 7y ago
The disingenuous part about your comment and the parent to your comment is the implication that thin and light computers aren't something consumers prefer and demand. If you actually go back to using a 2015 MacBook pro, especially the 15" model, it actually does feel thick and heavy in comparison. The new model is a full half a pound lighter (22% reduction). The physical length and width dimensions are also much more portable. In a backpack or on carry-on luggage, that matters a lot. The 2013 MacBook Air you got repaired so easily? That computer has two fewer processor cores and is actually thicker than the current 13" MacBook Pro. The other disingenuous aspect is the idea that this repair is a full system replacement. It's not: while it does replace a lot of parts that wouldn't normally need to be replaced, you're still left with the same logic board, ports, bottom case, and display assembly as before. iFixit noted that the new MacBook Air model, using the same design language as the other MacBook Pro models, is actually a good amount more repairable than the previous design. It really follows quite closely to how a lot of designs happen in the tech world. The first version tends to be the most complex and difficult to repair (get the product out the door), and subsequently the design gets streamlined over time. The 2015 Retina MacBook Pro is, from my understanding, easier to repair than a 2012 model. The original iPhone was a nightmare inside, while the iPhone 6s is regarded as being incredibly easy to work on. I get it. Apple isn't being friendly to those who demand simple, inexpensive, modular repairs. That is bad, and it should not be encouraged. But make no mistake, consumers do not want to see their computers get thicker and heavier.

olliej 7y ago

A lot of it is also the structural rigidity and cooling. That said I suspect it is more cost effective and fast for them to just pull out the known functional core and put those in a new shell, then use the old shell as all/part of a refurb system. It makes the customer happy: They get a whole bunch of new stuff, and they get it quickly. It also means the store doesn't have to stock some arbitrary amount of each component - they just have a single heap of shells come in, and a bucket the goes out to be refurbed/recycled as appropriate. As for replacing individual keys I'm still not sure if that can be done easily now (I've not had any problems with the butterfly keyboards, but it's clear that a couple of people might have ;) )

keldaris 7y ago
Except it's not fast - apparently it takes 1-2 weeks and if this thread is anything to go by, the customers seem not happy at all. Gluing batteries is just crazy, I didn't even know they do that these days (old Thinkpads for life). Still, people keep buying useless shiny things for exorbitant prices, so Apple must be doing something right. I just don't know what it is - maintainability or easy repairs definitely isn't it.
- olliej 7y ago
  I assume that that's to give them leeway if anything goes wrong. I think the bigger issue that it's a mail-in repair, so you end up burning a bunch of days on that: * First they send you a shipping box. * Then you put your laptop in it, and get it to a drop off, then you have a few days shipping (I can't imagine they're doing overnight), plus weekend delay. * However long it takes their receiving to get the delivery to wherever they're doing the repairs/replacement * the repair - I suspect that's going to be measured in minutes, but you have a latency due to volume of repairs, which I assume depends on how many machines need to replacements. * I assume some technician puts it back in a box, and it gets sent to their shipping facility * a couple of days for shipping. Put that together, 2 days to ship there, 1 day processing + repair, 2 days to return. So you easily hit the weekend, so now you're at 7 days. If anything goes wrong you've exceeded one week. Which means saying "1-2 weeks" gives them a buffer to ensure it doesn't take longer than they've stated. If they did it in store I imagine it could be same or next day, but by doing it as a ship in/out repair makes it absurd. (I don't think they're exorbitantly priced, yes they cost more, but it's not like the old PPC prices)

dangus 7y ago

The disingenuous part about your comment and the parent to your comment is the implication that thin and light computers aren't something consumers prefer and demand. If you actually go back to using a 2015 MacBook pro, especially the 15" model, it actually does feel thick and heavy in comparison. The new model is a full half a pound lighter (22% reduction). The physical length and width dimensions are also much more portable. In a backpack or on carry-on luggage, that matters a lot. The 2013 MacBook Air you got repaired so easily? That computer has two fewer processor cores and is actually thicker than the current 13" MacBook Pro. The other disingenuous aspect is the idea that this repair is a full system replacement. It's not: while it does replace a lot of parts that wouldn't normally need to be replaced, you're still left with the same logic board, ports, bottom case, and display assembly as before. iFixit noted that the new MacBook Air model, using the same design language as the other MacBook Pro models, is actually a good amount more repairable than the previous design. It really follows quite closely to how a lot of designs happen in the tech world. The first version tends to be the most complex and difficult to repair (get the product out the door), and subsequently the design gets streamlined over time. The 2015 Retina MacBook Pro is, from my understanding, easier to repair than a 2012 model. The original iPhone was a nightmare inside, while the iPhone 6s is regarded as being incredibly easy to work on. I get it. Apple isn't being friendly to those who demand simple, inexpensive, modular repairs. That is bad, and it should not be encouraged. But make no mistake, consumers do not want to see their computers get thicker and heavier.