3 ms·

I don't follow. If you buy a Camaro and I say "I don't like Camaros and don't think people should buy them", that's not a personal attack- it's an opinion. Yo

I don't follow. If you buy a Camaro and I say "I don't like Camaros and don't think people should buy them", that's not a personal attack- it's an opinion. You have the agency to make your own decisions and I'm not impeding anyone from doing so (nor would I even if I had such power).

Bakary 7y ago
In this case, it concerns sentient beings and personal responsibility towards those beings. Not to mention the inherent touchiness of the topic of reproduction. When you buy a Camaro, you aren't hurting anyone directly if we ignore pollution etc for the sake of the argument. To give a closer analogy, it's like saying that circumcision is a barbaric practice. It follows that you are implictly declaring that people who circumcize their kids have done something bad (doesn't mean you think they were solely responsible, or that the act was inexcusable/irrational on their part). If you deny this, then your initial statement was meaningless. Whether or not someone then takes offense is a different matter altogether.
- RankingMember 7y ago
  People are entitled to their feelings, but so am I to mine. Any implicit declaration of wrongdoing is in their own heads, because I don't see humans (myself included) as some kind of infallible entity that is always right or wrong. Circumcision, in my opinion, is a barbaric and silly practice, but why should that matter to you if you chose to get your kid circumcised? You're you, and I'm me. We can think about things differently. If you're amenable to being convinced not to have some of your kid's penis chopped off, great. Otherwise, great too, you do you. You're not going around in a van circumcising people against their will nor am I forcing reconstructive surgery. The world is full of people with opinions that disagree with those you may hold closest. On a basic level, I don't understand why you'd be offended by someone else's opinion as long as they're not forcing it upon you/being a dick about it.
  - Bakary 7y ago
    I also tend to share this phlegmatic approach to opinions. I can't remember the last time I felt offended because of one. It certainly helps with the blood pressure. That said, my original point before I got lost in the details is just that I found it intriguing that you expected antinatalism to be so neutral a statement that it shouldn't warrant a response from others. >The world is full of people with opinions that disagree with those you may hold closest. On a basic level, I don't understand why you'd be offended by someone else's opinion as long as they're not forcing it upon you/being a dick about it. On a more complex level, the "you do you" approach is a denial of choice. Since the status quo is a certain way, and has certain consequences, then passiveness is in fact a deliberate and non-neutral action. That's not to say that you should conspire to offend and feel offended at every turn, just that moral relativism as a way of evading the responsibilities of free will is a fantasy. To give an extreme example to illustrate this, let's say we replace the word circumcision above with a far graver issue: "Slavery, in my opinion, is a barbaric and silly practice, but why should that matter to you if you chose to sell your kid into slavery? You're you, and I'm me. We can think about things differently."

Bakary 7y ago

In this case, it concerns sentient beings and personal responsibility towards those beings. Not to mention the inherent touchiness of the topic of reproduction. When you buy a Camaro, you aren't hurting anyone directly if we ignore pollution etc for the sake of the argument. To give a closer analogy, it's like saying that circumcision is a barbaric practice. It follows that you are implictly declaring that people who circumcize their kids have done something bad (doesn't mean you think they were solely responsible, or that the act was inexcusable/irrational on their part). If you deny this, then your initial statement was meaningless. Whether or not someone then takes offense is a different matter altogether.

RankingMember 7y ago
People are entitled to their feelings, but so am I to mine. Any implicit declaration of wrongdoing is in their own heads, because I don't see humans (myself included) as some kind of infallible entity that is always right or wrong. Circumcision, in my opinion, is a barbaric and silly practice, but why should that matter to you if you chose to get your kid circumcised? You're you, and I'm me. We can think about things differently. If you're amenable to being convinced not to have some of your kid's penis chopped off, great. Otherwise, great too, you do you. You're not going around in a van circumcising people against their will nor am I forcing reconstructive surgery. The world is full of people with opinions that disagree with those you may hold closest. On a basic level, I don't understand why you'd be offended by someone else's opinion as long as they're not forcing it upon you/being a dick about it.
- Bakary 7y ago
  I also tend to share this phlegmatic approach to opinions. I can't remember the last time I felt offended because of one. It certainly helps with the blood pressure. That said, my original point before I got lost in the details is just that I found it intriguing that you expected antinatalism to be so neutral a statement that it shouldn't warrant a response from others. >The world is full of people with opinions that disagree with those you may hold closest. On a basic level, I don't understand why you'd be offended by someone else's opinion as long as they're not forcing it upon you/being a dick about it. On a more complex level, the "you do you" approach is a denial of choice. Since the status quo is a certain way, and has certain consequences, then passiveness is in fact a deliberate and non-neutral action. That's not to say that you should conspire to offend and feel offended at every turn, just that moral relativism as a way of evading the responsibilities of free will is a fantasy. To give an extreme example to illustrate this, let's say we replace the word circumcision above with a far graver issue: "Slavery, in my opinion, is a barbaric and silly practice, but why should that matter to you if you chose to sell your kid into slavery? You're you, and I'm me. We can think about things differently."