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Just speaking purely secularly without getting into religious issues: antinatalism seems like a position that leads to untenable ends if you just follow its log

by xamuel 7y ago

Just speaking purely secularly without getting into religious issues: antinatalism seems like a position that leads to untenable ends if you just follow its logic. For example, if you're really strict about antinatalism, you should be in favor of intentional nuclear holocaust of all life on earth, because that would get rid of the problem of babies being born into life of suffering. Surely you don't hold such an extreme view, though? Neither would you advocate that everyone ought to promptly commit suicide personally. Would you advocate for forced global sterilization?

RankingMember 7y ago
Any argument can be taken to a ridiculous extreme if you choose to bring it there. The line, for me, is where you try to make decisions for others/tell them what to do. It doesn't matter what opinion I hold- even if I was in some all-powerful position I wouldn't think for a second I could or should govern peoples' lives by my own opinions. For some reason it seems to be a common trend in discussion to think that simply holding a belief means you intend to impose it on others.
- xamuel 7y ago
  You're right, I see now I set up a bit of a strawman there, thanks for pointing that out. So what concrete action do you advocate as a result of your opinion? Increased access to birth control? Or are you saying it's just strictly an opinion? In which case, how is it different than just electing not to have kids yourself? I think some people (including myself) might have the knee-jerk reaction that the main difference between antinatalism vs. just vanilla opting-out-of-parenthood, is that the former offers you a way to feel smug/holier-than-thou. What would you say in response to that knee-jerk reaction?
  - RankingMember 7y ago
    Certainly a good question. I would say I understand the knee-jerk reaction because there are many who trumpet their choice to not have children as though it's some kind of merit badge. "r/childfree" for instance on reddit is one such place where this sentiment is rampant, along with some weird kind of child hatred/being happy when children are unhappy. I think if we had a conversation you would see that I bring up my perspective (and I only do so if the context comes up) not to chide people or feel better than them, because I'm not. My intention is purely to make some small contribution to raising awareness of what our exponential population growth is doing and will continue to do to our planet. The end goal is for people to have one additional shred of a thought before they have a kid. Not to feel guilty, but just to give a micro-second of consideration to the planet and its other inhabitants' wellbeing before adding another human to it. That's it.
deleted 7y ago
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by xamuel 7y ago

RankingMember 7y ago

Any argument can be taken to a ridiculous extreme if you choose to bring it there. The line, for me, is where you try to make decisions for others/tell them what to do. It doesn't matter what opinion I hold- even if I was in some all-powerful position I wouldn't think for a second I could or should govern peoples' lives by my own opinions. For some reason it seems to be a common trend in discussion to think that simply holding a belief means you intend to impose it on others.

xamuel 7y ago
You're right, I see now I set up a bit of a strawman there, thanks for pointing that out. So what concrete action do you advocate as a result of your opinion? Increased access to birth control? Or are you saying it's just strictly an opinion? In which case, how is it different than just electing not to have kids yourself? I think some people (including myself) might have the knee-jerk reaction that the main difference between antinatalism vs. just vanilla opting-out-of-parenthood, is that the former offers you a way to feel smug/holier-than-thou. What would you say in response to that knee-jerk reaction?
- RankingMember 7y ago
  Certainly a good question. I would say I understand the knee-jerk reaction because there are many who trumpet their choice to not have children as though it's some kind of merit badge. "r/childfree" for instance on reddit is one such place where this sentiment is rampant, along with some weird kind of child hatred/being happy when children are unhappy. I think if we had a conversation you would see that I bring up my perspective (and I only do so if the context comes up) not to chide people or feel better than them, because I'm not. My intention is purely to make some small contribution to raising awareness of what our exponential population growth is doing and will continue to do to our planet. The end goal is for people to have one additional shred of a thought before they have a kid. Not to feel guilty, but just to give a micro-second of consideration to the planet and its other inhabitants' wellbeing before adding another human to it. That's it.

deleted 7y ago

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