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Here's some direct evidence of the atrocity that is the Tiananmen Square massacre: https://i.imgur.com/E3D9BuH.jpg https://i.imgur.com/E3D9BuH.jpg. I'm sure yo

by jamoes 7y ago

Here's some direct evidence of the atrocity that is the Tiananmen Square massacre: https://i.imgur.com/E3D9BuH.jpg https://i.imgur.com/E3D9BuH.jpg. I'm sure you've seen the infamous "tank man" picture, which provides direct evidence that the PRC rolled tanks into Tiananmen Square. The above picture isn't as iconic, but it shows what the PRC did with those tanks: they crushed and killed anyone in their path.

admk 7y ago
I was refering to more recent events, e.g. FLG, organ harvesting, Uighurs, Hong Kong protests. I am aware (as told by many, I was too young to know) that there were numerous deaths and many more injured in that year.
- themacguffinman 7y ago
  > Uighurs https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48667221/inside-china-s-thought-transformation-camps https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48667221/inside...
- jamoes 7y ago
  This does a a good job at showing the huge number of people protesting in Hong Kong: https://gfycat.com/relievedcornychrysomelid-timelapse https://gfycat.com/relievedcornychrysomelid-timelapse
- dougmwne 7y ago
  That's very shocking to hear, but I'm not entirely surprised to hear that you doubt these events. The combination of censorship and propaganda is very effective. I try to keep an unbiased perspective and I am very aware of how the hidden motives of governments and media organizations can skew the news, even in the freest of countries. My best media-savvy sense is that all of the things you mention are in fact happening and that they are atrocities. For example, here's some good reporting the BBC did: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam... My broader point though is that you won't change your mind because your livelihood and freedom depends on you denying or ignoring the actions of your government. So just like in the VPN experiment, we can remove the wall, but you will not leave the prison. I feel sorry for you, individually and personally, though it's probably for the best that you're not interested in questioning these things too closely.
- pergadad 7y ago
  I think the other posters all provide clear evidence of the issues raised. I'm wondering if you had a look and changed it at least started to doubt your current views? If not, what would convince you? More importantly, you seem to be quite educated and tech literate, and use ok f vpn is natural for you. What % of the population would you think is able to access vpns and outside media and sites?
pishpash 7y ago
If this is indicative of the depth of your knowledge about government atrocities, I suggest you stop. Worse would be to talk about reeducation camps, or organ harvesting. It's meme-like at this point and has no bearing on reality. Things that actually happened: rural protests, corruption, razing houses by eminent domain, medical malpractice, even some obscure musician being blacklisted, things that can happen everywhere but happen with "Chinese characteristics" in a more volatile way because of the lack of rule of law and due process, often ending with violence or curtailment of basic rights. But these are not as trendy and nobody really gives a shit about how Chinese people live, people just want to feel morally superior.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  > If this is indicative of the depth of your knowledge about government atrocities, I suggest you stop. Why? Because it's incorrect or correct? > Worse would be to talk about reeducation camps, or organ harvesting Ditto why - is it not happening? > rural protests, corruption, razing houses by eminent domain, medical malpractice, even some obscure musician being blacklisted I can believe this but it does not disprove the other stuff. > and nobody really gives a shit about how Chinese people live, people just want to feel morally superior. No. Listen carefully: we do care. I do, others do. Not all but most. I don't know why you suppose us so purely self-centred.
  - XuMiao 7y ago
    Extreme Islamic is a difficult problem to deal with globally. Look at Israel, they are taking extreme measure too. Historically, this extreme ideology comes from Western culture. Both Christian and Islamic are exclusive religions. Drives each other nuts for thousand years. US played a very bad role in modern days and caused the situation out of control. Iraq war and other mediterranean wars, all of them are unethical anti-human-rights wars. They have destroyed so many families. That's why nobody in the world believe US's so called human rights propaganda even though there are some America truly care. Chinese don't believe that US is able to solve their own extreme Islamic problem. They invented their own method. They believe that the fundamental reason for the extreme behavior is because they are excluded from the society and the economy. They want to reeducate them to get them involved. However, the approach is a bit harsh. Not quite sure whether they will succeed. Frankly speaking, getting everyone involved in the society is the key for US as well. Rich people don't pay tax, don't participate in the economy, and don't care about poor guys. They have their robots. More and more poor people have left the economy completely for years. The middle class is vanishing quickly. The extreme behaviors are emerging fast these days. Before we point our fingers at other people, we really should figure out our own issues.

by jamoes 7y ago

admk 7y ago

I was refering to more recent events, e.g. FLG, organ harvesting, Uighurs, Hong Kong protests. I am aware (as told by many, I was too young to know) that there were numerous deaths and many more injured in that year.

themacguffinman 7y ago
> Uighurs https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48667221/inside-china-s-thought-transformation-camps https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48667221/inside...
jamoes 7y ago
This does a a good job at showing the huge number of people protesting in Hong Kong: https://gfycat.com/relievedcornychrysomelid-timelapse https://gfycat.com/relievedcornychrysomelid-timelapse
dougmwne 7y ago
That's very shocking to hear, but I'm not entirely surprised to hear that you doubt these events. The combination of censorship and propaganda is very effective. I try to keep an unbiased perspective and I am very aware of how the hidden motives of governments and media organizations can skew the news, even in the freest of countries. My best media-savvy sense is that all of the things you mention are in fact happening and that they are atrocities. For example, here's some good reporting the BBC did: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_cam... My broader point though is that you won't change your mind because your livelihood and freedom depends on you denying or ignoring the actions of your government. So just like in the VPN experiment, we can remove the wall, but you will not leave the prison. I feel sorry for you, individually and personally, though it's probably for the best that you're not interested in questioning these things too closely.
pergadad 7y ago
I think the other posters all provide clear evidence of the issues raised. I'm wondering if you had a look and changed it at least started to doubt your current views? If not, what would convince you? More importantly, you seem to be quite educated and tech literate, and use ok f vpn is natural for you. What % of the population would you think is able to access vpns and outside media and sites?

pishpash 7y ago

If this is indicative of the depth of your knowledge about government atrocities, I suggest you stop. Worse would be to talk about reeducation camps, or organ harvesting. It's meme-like at this point and has no bearing on reality. Things that actually happened: rural protests, corruption, razing houses by eminent domain, medical malpractice, even some obscure musician being blacklisted, things that can happen everywhere but happen with "Chinese characteristics" in a more volatile way because of the lack of rule of law and due process, often ending with violence or curtailment of basic rights. But these are not as trendy and nobody really gives a shit about how Chinese people live, people just want to feel morally superior.

tempguy9999 7y ago
> If this is indicative of the depth of your knowledge about government atrocities, I suggest you stop. Why? Because it's incorrect or correct? > Worse would be to talk about reeducation camps, or organ harvesting Ditto why - is it not happening? > rural protests, corruption, razing houses by eminent domain, medical malpractice, even some obscure musician being blacklisted I can believe this but it does not disprove the other stuff. > and nobody really gives a shit about how Chinese people live, people just want to feel morally superior. No. Listen carefully: we do care. I do, others do. Not all but most. I don't know why you suppose us so purely self-centred.
- XuMiao 7y ago
  Extreme Islamic is a difficult problem to deal with globally. Look at Israel, they are taking extreme measure too. Historically, this extreme ideology comes from Western culture. Both Christian and Islamic are exclusive religions. Drives each other nuts for thousand years. US played a very bad role in modern days and caused the situation out of control. Iraq war and other mediterranean wars, all of them are unethical anti-human-rights wars. They have destroyed so many families. That's why nobody in the world believe US's so called human rights propaganda even though there are some America truly care. Chinese don't believe that US is able to solve their own extreme Islamic problem. They invented their own method. They believe that the fundamental reason for the extreme behavior is because they are excluded from the society and the economy. They want to reeducate them to get them involved. However, the approach is a bit harsh. Not quite sure whether they will succeed. Frankly speaking, getting everyone involved in the society is the key for US as well. Rich people don't pay tax, don't participate in the economy, and don't care about poor guys. They have their robots. More and more poor people have left the economy completely for years. The middle class is vanishing quickly. The extreme behaviors are emerging fast these days. Before we point our fingers at other people, we really should figure out our own issues.