10 ms·

I also hate maintaining a detached single family home with a yard. I also hate being responsible for the fixes. But that situation is still far better than rent

I also hate maintaining a detached single family home with a yard. I also hate being responsible for the fixes. But that situation is still far better than renting. When we rented, we were subjected to eviction at any time, for nearly any reason, for basically no notice (60 days, which in the US is effectively zero notice). Your subjected to every whim the crazy wildly-irrational housing market throws at you (we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now, despite living in bumblefudge-nowhere Midwest). Renting in the US today is capital-e Evil, and just wholly broken. Unless we're ready to implement some guaranteed nationwide rent controls and guarantees against unjust eviction and harassment, making housing ownership possible for all citizens has to be the number 1 goal. Because home/condo ownership is the only way to gain any sort of housing security in most of the USA today.

Balgair 7y ago
> we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now, despite living in bumblefudge-nowhere Midwest Quick math for the rest of you out there: That means they paid 1000 in 2009 and now pay ~3500 in 2019. Also, yes, I feel you there. Our rental agreement states a mandatory 10% increase if you rent from year to year. I've no idea why the company is this stupid though. The rents around us are falling or staying steady these days. So we just move to the block over every year and the old place stays empty for 3 months before then being rented out for the same or less than we paid. I'm sure there is some tax thing involved here that makes it so they don't have to care all that much. Also, yeah, we don't have a lot, and we can just move houses in about a weekend in my 4-door.
- andechs 7y ago
  It's similar to a telecommunications giant - as the customer, you need to pay a cost of switching (moving expenses, hookup fees etc.). So it's in their best interests to try to squeeze customers when possible, even with the occasional person that moves out, they'll net a lot more from tenants who just don't bother to dispute the increase.
  - Balgair 7y ago
    True! We've decided to be nimble, and it does take a toll (no pool tables, no big patio furniture, smaller couches, etc). But saving the cash is worth it to us. 12% on 1000k/mo rent comes out to an extra 1440/year that could be saved. To us, such a thing is worth the weekend of moving hell.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      Don't you also lose a lot of the deposit money you put down on the old apartment and the services that went along with it though? Not to mention that moving is more than a weekend of shuttling around possessions (if you don't own much), you also have to change your address with everyone, sign up for new utilities... I always burn a lot of money and time when moving.
      - Balgair 7y ago
        > Don't you also lose a lot of the deposit money you put down on the old apartment and the services that went along with it though? Wait, what? It's a deposit, you get it back at the end of the lease. Like, granted, if you have a lot of damage to the carpets, sure, you're gonna be out $80 for the cleaning of them. But I've always gotten it back in full after a month or so. For me, moving is litterally a weekend (maybe including a Friday afternoon). We really don't have much to move. I'm not joking. Also, my state allows you to just forward the mail to the new address for free. It only lasts a year, but you can re-up that at any time. We've just done that without much worry and we also have a lot of online stuff that works through the phones and whatnot. I guess I'm just old hat at doing this kinda moving stuff. It's not much stress for me, though you are right, it is some extra stress. For us, it's worth the savings.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        In my experience I lose hundreds on my deposit every time (with very little actual wear to validate that loss). I've only ever rented in major cities though, so maybe it's less aggressively slum-lordy elsewhere. If you do have more possessions than you can move yourself, or your moving long distances, you end up spending a ton of money. Movers usually cost me 5-10k and I didn't even have a lot of stuff (2bd apartment worth of possessions). Ditto if you need your car(s) moved.
- JKCalhoun 7y ago
  > I'm sure there is some tax thing involved here Loyalty tax, perhaps. They expect people to just "take it".
- benj111 7y ago
  "Our rental agreement states a mandatory 10% increase if you rent from year to year" Why even sign that agreement? That landlord obviously isn't going to give a toss if there's a issue. Its just a huge red flag for me.
  - Balgair 7y ago
    > Why even sign that agreement? Honestly? It was a good place and a good price. We've no intention of dealing with that issue either. We tend to move every year as the jobs change. Would we like to stay in this place for longer? Sure! But it's unlikely to occur.
- jandrese 7y ago
  When I rented the company sent a letter every year asking us to agree to a 8-12% hike. Every year we ignored the letter until they called and we talked them down to either keeping the rent the same or raising it only a couple of percent. It's one of the headaches of renting, but it makes a huge difference over time. A fixed mortgage is much less painful.
  - Balgair 7y ago
    > A fixed mortgage is much less painful. I'm in total agreement, but the housing prices around here aren't very good (obviously expensive). Besides, we don't have stable work yet, so locking into a mortgage that will go underwater isn't wise.
- qes 7y ago
  > That means they paid 1000 in 2009 and now pay ~3500 in 2019. Which means they're almost certainly exaggerating, unless they're in a condo in downtown Chicago, but they did say "bumblefudge-nowhere" so I'd say just straight BS.
LarryDarrell 7y ago
The thing I've noticed is that in my area all the modest neighborhoods (2 bed, 1 bath, sub $200k) are being bought up by landlords. This leads to a neighborhood of renters, which is a lot different than a neighborhood of owners. The Havers can buy a lot more houses than the Have-Nots and I'm left wondering what the price of single family homes would be if renting them was illegal and they were all placed on the market.
- Animats 7y ago
  Yes. That's a "private equity" thing.[1] Blackrock can borrow at lower rates than homeowners. So they can buy up houses and rent them out at a profit. Plus they can keep raising the rent. And they outsource maintenance. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/02/single-family-landlords-wall-street/582394/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/02/singl...
  - nroets 7y ago
    The agency cost of any landlord is much larger than the savings in capital cost. For example, for a tenant there is an incentive to complain over the smallest problem instead of fixing himself or just living with the problem. Management agents charge a fortune to deal with these issues.
- treis 7y ago
  It's another example of the high cost of being poor. The rent on my town home is several thousand more per year than what a mortgage (5% down), taxes, HOA fee, PMI, and home insurance would be.
  - drtillberg 7y ago
    Think of it instead as a player closer to the money printing machine that is the fractional reserve banking system. This is the inflation the Fed created directly, and these institutions probably are thinking: 'housing prices only go up, so the duration of my borrowing doesn't matter, borrow short term buy long term, it's all gravy!' If you're over 30 and feel like you've heard this story before, you have....
esoterica 7y ago
Price controls do not work. High home prices are a symptom of a lack of available housing and the only way to fix the lack of housing is by building more housing.
- mcguire 7y ago
  High home prices are often a symptom of easy money and inflation localized to that sector. (Specifically, the houses described in the article seem to be poster children of this type.) That was the whole 2008 thing, right?
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now That was part of the motivation for buying my first house. The rent was going up $50/month every 6 months, and the mortgage was going to cost only $100/month more than the rent. I figured in a year I'd break even, and in 2 years I'd be ahead.
- anthonypasq 7y ago
  lol at assuming mortgage is the only expense to owning a house
  - thousandautumns 7y ago
    More like lol at assuming your rent doesn't cover the other expenses of owning a house. You think your landlord is just taking the loss? When you rent, you are paying, if not directly, for every expense associated with the house, plus extra for the landlords profit margin.
    - refurb 7y ago
      The rental market and the home buying market as separate and not perfectly correlated. In SF right now, it's cheaper to rent than to buy, so yes, if a landlord bought today and rented it out they'd be taking a loss. The thing is that landlords may have purchased the place a long time ago. They can still make a profit with rent being less than what a mortgage+ would be today.
cblum 7y ago
>housing security There is no such thing unless your home is paid off. If you have a mortgage and are hit by a catastrophic life event that leaves you without a job and depleted of your emergency fund, your home is gone.
- elsonrodriguez 7y ago
  If you stop paying rent your ass is on the street in days. Stop paying your mortgage and it can be months or years.
  - jnwatson 7y ago
    It takes at least 60 days in most areas of the US to evict a tenant.
- radcon 7y ago
  > If you have a mortgage and are hit by a catastrophic life event that leaves you without a job and depleted of your emergency fund, your home is gone. That risk exists regardless of whether you rent or own. The risks he mentioned are unique to rentals. It's very common for leases to essentially say "We can kick you out if we feel like it," no justification necessary. Even if the lease stipulates some justification, they'll find a way around it ("Our maintenance crew noted your excessive noise on 37 separate occasions. You also have a wreath hanging on your door, which is another violation of the lease."). It's extremely rare for a mortgage to contain any sort of terms that allow you to be arbitrarily kicked out of your home.
  - saltminer 7y ago
    The mortgage might be more secure, but an HOA can turn your life upside down if it's run by power-hungry busybodies and they can destroy the property values of the whole neighborhood while they're at it.
    - mcguire 7y ago
      I've lived in several HOAs in the past, and yeah, they can be a pain. But in my experience, they are mostly concerned with not destroying the property values. In practice, they're only interested in stuff that's egregiously stupid. (Say that crazy old lady with the weird, creepy Halloween decorations including the beheaded baby that stay out from Labor Day to New Years.) Plus, it's easy enough to avoid HOAs.
sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
Were you a month to month tenant? If not, why would you sign a lease that lets the landlord break it with 60 days notice? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a lease in the first place?
- jandrese 7y ago
  Every lease I've seen has a provision that allows the Landlord to kick you out if you are deemed to be a nuisance. IIRC there are renters rights in many areas that make this more difficult, requiring a court order typically, but not all areas have this and Landlords will put those clauses in the lease regardless just in case the tenants aren't familiar with the law.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    I mean, most HOAs will kick you out if you are deemed to be a nuisance, as can a city council.
    - jandrese 7y ago
      HOAs don't have the power to evict you from your own house. They might act like they do, but they don't. Their power basically ends at sending sternly worded letters and in exceptional cases putting a lien on the property. If the homeowner just ignores their letters they can't do much.
      - tathougies 7y ago
        Yes, they can? An HOA is added to the deed agreement. A typical HOA will be allowed to put a lien on the house if you do not pay them the agreed upon fee, and -- crucially -- whatever other fees they determine. Thus, if an HOA wants to kick you out for any reason, they mostly just have to continue to fine you until you can no longer pay, at which point they ask a judge, and take the house.
        jnwatson 7y ago
madengr 7y ago
From a different perspective, 60 days is too long if you are a landlord trying to evict a drug user who has not paid rent in 60 days. I’d like to invest in rental property, but would never want to be a landlord. My mother rented out a house and the renter trashed it.
imgabe 7y ago
I know landlord-tenant laws vary a lot, but how could you be subject to random evictions with only 60-day notice? Most places I've lived, you sign a one year lease. The landlord can't evict you while the lease is in effect as long as you are abiding by the terms of the lease.
- x86_64Ubuntu 7y ago
  You must not live in Georgia or the South.
  - imgabe 7y ago
    Rental contracts are not valid in the South and one party can unilaterally end the agreement for no reason? That really sucks, if so.
    - mcguire 7y ago
      https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-eviction-process-georgia-rules-landlords-property-managers.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-eviction-process... Georgia: "If a landlord does not have cause to terminate a tenancy early and evict a tenant, then the landlord must wait until the lease term has ended before expecting the tenant to move. In some cases, the landlord may still need to give the tenant written notice to move. "Month-to-Month Tenancy "If a tenant is in a month-to-month tenancy and the landlord wishes to end the tenancy, the landlord needs to give the tenant a written 60-day notice. This notice will inform the tenant that the landlord is terminating the tenancy and the tenant must move out of the rental unit by the end of 60 days. If the tenant does not move out of the rental unit by that time, then the landlord can file an eviction lawsuit with the court (see Ga. Code Ann. § 44-7-7). For more information on this topic, check out Georgia Notice Requirements to Terminate a Month-to-Month Tenancy. "Fixed-Term Tenancy "If a landlord does not have cause to evict a tenant who is in a fixed-term tenancy (such as for six months or one year), then the landlord must wait until the end of the term before expecting the tenant to move. The landlord does not need to give the tenant written notice to move unless the terms of the lease or rental agreement specifically require the landlord to do so. The landlord can expect the tenant to move by the end of the term."
rifung 7y ago
> When we rented, we were subjected to eviction at any time, for nearly any reason, for basically no notice (60 days, which in the US is effectively zero notice). Your subjected to every whim the crazy wildly-irrational housing market throws at you (we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now, despite living in bumblefudge-nowhere Midwest). Not saying you're wrong but at least where I've lived, I could very easily find a new place to live in 60 days. I think usually landlords give the terms of a new lease much less than 60 days away from the end of the current lease, and most people usually don't decide to move or stay before they know how much their current place is going to cost.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  For a family, 60 days to pack everythig you own, and move, while supporting everyone is not easy at best, and untenable at worst. When I was single this was not the case.
  - realityenigma 7y ago
    This doesn't pass the BS test, especially if you are local. I have moved across town; with a family and a day job, in around 15 days, with most of the move taking place the first 7. Out of town, I can see 30 - 45. It would require planning and a UHaul (if within 250 miles) and a semi-truck moving company if further out than that. It literally just takes a bit of planning and follow through.
    - jstarfish 7y ago
      There are a lot more hoarders in this country than anybody will admit. Some people will never move at all because the thought of having to "go through all our stuff and pack it all" is too daunting. I do not see how this possibly applies to renters though.

Balgair 7y ago

> we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now, despite living in bumblefudge-nowhere Midwest Quick math for the rest of you out there: That means they paid 1000 in 2009 and now pay ~3500 in 2019. Also, yes, I feel you there. Our rental agreement states a mandatory 10% increase if you rent from year to year. I've no idea why the company is this stupid though. The rents around us are falling or staying steady these days. So we just move to the block over every year and the old place stays empty for 3 months before then being rented out for the same or less than we paid. I'm sure there is some tax thing involved here that makes it so they don't have to care all that much. Also, yeah, we don't have a lot, and we can just move houses in about a weekend in my 4-door.

andechs 7y ago
It's similar to a telecommunications giant - as the customer, you need to pay a cost of switching (moving expenses, hookup fees etc.). So it's in their best interests to try to squeeze customers when possible, even with the occasional person that moves out, they'll net a lot more from tenants who just don't bother to dispute the increase.
- Balgair 7y ago
  True! We've decided to be nimble, and it does take a toll (no pool tables, no big patio furniture, smaller couches, etc). But saving the cash is worth it to us. 12% on 1000k/mo rent comes out to an extra 1440/year that could be saved. To us, such a thing is worth the weekend of moving hell.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Don't you also lose a lot of the deposit money you put down on the old apartment and the services that went along with it though? Not to mention that moving is more than a weekend of shuttling around possessions (if you don't own much), you also have to change your address with everyone, sign up for new utilities... I always burn a lot of money and time when moving.
    - Balgair 7y ago
      > Don't you also lose a lot of the deposit money you put down on the old apartment and the services that went along with it though? Wait, what? It's a deposit, you get it back at the end of the lease. Like, granted, if you have a lot of damage to the carpets, sure, you're gonna be out $80 for the cleaning of them. But I've always gotten it back in full after a month or so. For me, moving is litterally a weekend (maybe including a Friday afternoon). We really don't have much to move. I'm not joking. Also, my state allows you to just forward the mail to the new address for free. It only lasts a year, but you can re-up that at any time. We've just done that without much worry and we also have a lot of online stuff that works through the phones and whatnot. I guess I'm just old hat at doing this kinda moving stuff. It's not much stress for me, though you are right, it is some extra stress. For us, it's worth the savings.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        In my experience I lose hundreds on my deposit every time (with very little actual wear to validate that loss). I've only ever rented in major cities though, so maybe it's less aggressively slum-lordy elsewhere. If you do have more possessions than you can move yourself, or your moving long distances, you end up spending a ton of money. Movers usually cost me 5-10k and I didn't even have a lot of stuff (2bd apartment worth of possessions). Ditto if you need your car(s) moved.
JKCalhoun 7y ago
> I'm sure there is some tax thing involved here Loyalty tax, perhaps. They expect people to just "take it".
benj111 7y ago
"Our rental agreement states a mandatory 10% increase if you rent from year to year" Why even sign that agreement? That landlord obviously isn't going to give a toss if there's a issue. Its just a huge red flag for me.
- Balgair 7y ago
  > Why even sign that agreement? Honestly? It was a good place and a good price. We've no intention of dealing with that issue either. We tend to move every year as the jobs change. Would we like to stay in this place for longer? Sure! But it's unlikely to occur.
jandrese 7y ago
When I rented the company sent a letter every year asking us to agree to a 8-12% hike. Every year we ignored the letter until they called and we talked them down to either keeping the rent the same or raising it only a couple of percent. It's one of the headaches of renting, but it makes a huge difference over time. A fixed mortgage is much less painful.
- Balgair 7y ago
  > A fixed mortgage is much less painful. I'm in total agreement, but the housing prices around here aren't very good (obviously expensive). Besides, we don't have stable work yet, so locking into a mortgage that will go underwater isn't wise.
qes 7y ago
> That means they paid 1000 in 2009 and now pay ~3500 in 2019. Which means they're almost certainly exaggerating, unless they're in a condo in downtown Chicago, but they did say "bumblefudge-nowhere" so I'd say just straight BS.

LarryDarrell 7y ago

The thing I've noticed is that in my area all the modest neighborhoods (2 bed, 1 bath, sub $200k) are being bought up by landlords. This leads to a neighborhood of renters, which is a lot different than a neighborhood of owners. The Havers can buy a lot more houses than the Have-Nots and I'm left wondering what the price of single family homes would be if renting them was illegal and they were all placed on the market.

Animats 7y ago
Yes. That's a "private equity" thing.[1] Blackrock can borrow at lower rates than homeowners. So they can buy up houses and rent them out at a profit. Plus they can keep raising the rent. And they outsource maintenance. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/02/single-family-landlords-wall-street/582394/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/02/singl...
- nroets 7y ago
  The agency cost of any landlord is much larger than the savings in capital cost. For example, for a tenant there is an incentive to complain over the smallest problem instead of fixing himself or just living with the problem. Management agents charge a fortune to deal with these issues.
treis 7y ago
It's another example of the high cost of being poor. The rent on my town home is several thousand more per year than what a mortgage (5% down), taxes, HOA fee, PMI, and home insurance would be.
- drtillberg 7y ago
  Think of it instead as a player closer to the money printing machine that is the fractional reserve banking system. This is the inflation the Fed created directly, and these institutions probably are thinking: 'housing prices only go up, so the duration of my borrowing doesn't matter, borrow short term buy long term, it's all gravy!' If you're over 30 and feel like you've heard this story before, you have....

esoterica 7y ago

Price controls do not work. High home prices are a symptom of a lack of available housing and the only way to fix the lack of housing is by building more housing.

mcguire 7y ago
High home prices are often a symptom of easy money and inflation localized to that sector. (Specifically, the houses described in the article seem to be poster children of this type.) That was the whole 2008 thing, right?

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

> we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now That was part of the motivation for buying my first house. The rent was going up $50/month every 6 months, and the mortgage was going to cost only $100/month more than the rent. I figured in a year I'd break even, and in 2 years I'd be ahead.

anthonypasq 7y ago
lol at assuming mortgage is the only expense to owning a house
- thousandautumns 7y ago
  More like lol at assuming your rent doesn't cover the other expenses of owning a house. You think your landlord is just taking the loss? When you rent, you are paying, if not directly, for every expense associated with the house, plus extra for the landlords profit margin.
  - refurb 7y ago
    The rental market and the home buying market as separate and not perfectly correlated. In SF right now, it's cheaper to rent than to buy, so yes, if a landlord bought today and rented it out they'd be taking a loss. The thing is that landlords may have purchased the place a long time ago. They can still make a profit with rent being less than what a mortgage+ would be today.

cblum 7y ago

>housing security There is no such thing unless your home is paid off. If you have a mortgage and are hit by a catastrophic life event that leaves you without a job and depleted of your emergency fund, your home is gone.

elsonrodriguez 7y ago
If you stop paying rent your ass is on the street in days. Stop paying your mortgage and it can be months or years.
- jnwatson 7y ago
  It takes at least 60 days in most areas of the US to evict a tenant.
radcon 7y ago
> If you have a mortgage and are hit by a catastrophic life event that leaves you without a job and depleted of your emergency fund, your home is gone. That risk exists regardless of whether you rent or own. The risks he mentioned are unique to rentals. It's very common for leases to essentially say "We can kick you out if we feel like it," no justification necessary. Even if the lease stipulates some justification, they'll find a way around it ("Our maintenance crew noted your excessive noise on 37 separate occasions. You also have a wreath hanging on your door, which is another violation of the lease."). It's extremely rare for a mortgage to contain any sort of terms that allow you to be arbitrarily kicked out of your home.
- saltminer 7y ago
  The mortgage might be more secure, but an HOA can turn your life upside down if it's run by power-hungry busybodies and they can destroy the property values of the whole neighborhood while they're at it.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    I've lived in several HOAs in the past, and yeah, they can be a pain. But in my experience, they are mostly concerned with not destroying the property values. In practice, they're only interested in stuff that's egregiously stupid. (Say that crazy old lady with the weird, creepy Halloween decorations including the beheaded baby that stay out from Labor Day to New Years.) Plus, it's easy enough to avoid HOAs.

sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago

Were you a month to month tenant? If not, why would you sign a lease that lets the landlord break it with 60 days notice? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a lease in the first place?

jandrese 7y ago
Every lease I've seen has a provision that allows the Landlord to kick you out if you are deemed to be a nuisance. IIRC there are renters rights in many areas that make this more difficult, requiring a court order typically, but not all areas have this and Landlords will put those clauses in the lease regardless just in case the tenants aren't familiar with the law.
- tathougies 7y ago
  I mean, most HOAs will kick you out if you are deemed to be a nuisance, as can a city council.
  - jandrese 7y ago
    HOAs don't have the power to evict you from your own house. They might act like they do, but they don't. Their power basically ends at sending sternly worded letters and in exceptional cases putting a lien on the property. If the homeowner just ignores their letters they can't do much.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      Yes, they can? An HOA is added to the deed agreement. A typical HOA will be allowed to put a lien on the house if you do not pay them the agreed upon fee, and -- crucially -- whatever other fees they determine. Thus, if an HOA wants to kick you out for any reason, they mostly just have to continue to fine you until you can no longer pay, at which point they ask a judge, and take the house.
      - jnwatson 7y ago

madengr 7y ago

From a different perspective, 60 days is too long if you are a landlord trying to evict a drug user who has not paid rent in 60 days. I’d like to invest in rental property, but would never want to be a landlord. My mother rented out a house and the renter trashed it.

imgabe 7y ago

I know landlord-tenant laws vary a lot, but how could you be subject to random evictions with only 60-day notice? Most places I've lived, you sign a one year lease. The landlord can't evict you while the lease is in effect as long as you are abiding by the terms of the lease.

x86_64Ubuntu 7y ago
You must not live in Georgia or the South.
- imgabe 7y ago
  Rental contracts are not valid in the South and one party can unilaterally end the agreement for no reason? That really sucks, if so.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-eviction-process-georgia-rules-landlords-property-managers.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-eviction-process... Georgia: "If a landlord does not have cause to terminate a tenancy early and evict a tenant, then the landlord must wait until the lease term has ended before expecting the tenant to move. In some cases, the landlord may still need to give the tenant written notice to move. "Month-to-Month Tenancy "If a tenant is in a month-to-month tenancy and the landlord wishes to end the tenancy, the landlord needs to give the tenant a written 60-day notice. This notice will inform the tenant that the landlord is terminating the tenancy and the tenant must move out of the rental unit by the end of 60 days. If the tenant does not move out of the rental unit by that time, then the landlord can file an eviction lawsuit with the court (see Ga. Code Ann. § 44-7-7). For more information on this topic, check out Georgia Notice Requirements to Terminate a Month-to-Month Tenancy. "Fixed-Term Tenancy "If a landlord does not have cause to evict a tenant who is in a fixed-term tenancy (such as for six months or one year), then the landlord must wait until the end of the term before expecting the tenant to move. The landlord does not need to give the tenant written notice to move unless the terms of the lease or rental agreement specifically require the landlord to do so. The landlord can expect the tenant to move by the end of the term."

rifung 7y ago

> When we rented, we were subjected to eviction at any time, for nearly any reason, for basically no notice (60 days, which in the US is effectively zero notice). Your subjected to every whim the crazy wildly-irrational housing market throws at you (we've had 12% yearly rental increases for a decade straight now, despite living in bumblefudge-nowhere Midwest). Not saying you're wrong but at least where I've lived, I could very easily find a new place to live in 60 days. I think usually landlords give the terms of a new lease much less than 60 days away from the end of the current lease, and most people usually don't decide to move or stay before they know how much their current place is going to cost.

whenchamenia 7y ago
For a family, 60 days to pack everythig you own, and move, while supporting everyone is not easy at best, and untenable at worst. When I was single this was not the case.
- realityenigma 7y ago
  This doesn't pass the BS test, especially if you are local. I have moved across town; with a family and a day job, in around 15 days, with most of the move taking place the first 7. Out of town, I can see 30 - 45. It would require planning and a UHaul (if within 250 miles) and a semi-truck moving company if further out than that. It literally just takes a bit of planning and follow through.
  - jstarfish 7y ago
    There are a lot more hoarders in this country than anybody will admit. Some people will never move at all because the thought of having to "go through all our stuff and pack it all" is too daunting. I do not see how this possibly applies to renters though.