5 ms·

Reminds me of the Irish Chronicles that say the people came from Galicia in northern Spain, before that from northern Africa (possibly Phoenicians), all the way

Reminds me of the Irish Chronicles that say the people came from Galicia in northern Spain, before that from northern Africa (possibly Phoenicians), all the way back to Scythia (the horse archers who smoked weed in tents). Seems like a stretch but I think there have been some DNA studies that confirm parts of it, but my understanding is the medieval monks who compiled the stories were trying to claim a link to the Mediterranean/holy land in order to connect their identities to the Bible. Maybe they were mixing up multiple different migrations to fit the narrative. I'm curious about what real historians/scientists think about it.

arethuza 7y ago
Also the Scots who presumably inherited these myths from Ireland via Dalriada: "...we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath
elliekelly 7y ago
I know next to nothing about religion/the Irish Chronicles but I did hike the Camino de Santiago which ends in Galicia and my favorite pit stop along the way was Sierra de Atapuerca[1] and the Museum of Human Evolution in Burgos. The museum (I assume deliberately) avoids any mention of religion whatsoever but my recollection[2] of the tour at the dig site was that they had found evidence of early humans migrating to northern Spain from northern Africa. I would be curious to know if it was a happy accident that medieval monks stumbled into a somewhat correct explanation or whether they had some evidence to support their theory. [1] http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/989 http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/989 [2] In Spanish and I am barely conversational so it’s very likely that I missed some important details.
jacobush 7y ago
Yep, DNA fits with the people who lived in the Fertile Crescent way back.
mig39 7y ago
The Celtic connection to the Iberian Peninsula is probably a bit more complicated, but the Celtiberians and Celtic people in Ireland have common ancestors. Both being the results of Celtic migrations westward. So I'd say that instead of Irish people coming from Spain and Portugal, it would be fairer to say both are Celtic and leave it at that :-)
- asveikau 7y ago
  And worth noting that parts of today's modern northern Italy and France also had Celts. Though I also read another claim that Romans just over-applied the term "Celt" to foreign people. (Like the grandparent states, there seems to be a lot of conjecture and folk opinion on these subjects.)
  - weberc2 7y ago
    The Celts used to live all over Europe; they were displaced and assimilated during various migrations, especially the Germanic tribes migrating south. "Ancestral Journeys" by Jean Manco provides a great overview based on linguistic, archeological, and historical evidence.

arethuza 7y ago

Also the Scots who presumably inherited these myths from Ireland via Dalriada: "...we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread renown. They journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes, but nowhere could they be subdued by any race, however barbarous. Thence they came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to their home in the west where they still live today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath

elliekelly 7y ago

I know next to nothing about religion/the Irish Chronicles but I did hike the Camino de Santiago which ends in Galicia and my favorite pit stop along the way was Sierra de Atapuerca[1] and the Museum of Human Evolution in Burgos. The museum (I assume deliberately) avoids any mention of religion whatsoever but my recollection[2] of the tour at the dig site was that they had found evidence of early humans migrating to northern Spain from northern Africa. I would be curious to know if it was a happy accident that medieval monks stumbled into a somewhat correct explanation or whether they had some evidence to support their theory. [1] http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/989 http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/989 [2] In Spanish and I am barely conversational so it’s very likely that I missed some important details.

jacobush 7y ago

Yep, DNA fits with the people who lived in the Fertile Crescent way back.

mig39 7y ago

The Celtic connection to the Iberian Peninsula is probably a bit more complicated, but the Celtiberians and Celtic people in Ireland have common ancestors. Both being the results of Celtic migrations westward. So I'd say that instead of Irish people coming from Spain and Portugal, it would be fairer to say both are Celtic and leave it at that :-)

asveikau 7y ago
And worth noting that parts of today's modern northern Italy and France also had Celts. Though I also read another claim that Romans just over-applied the term "Celt" to foreign people. (Like the grandparent states, there seems to be a lot of conjecture and folk opinion on these subjects.)
- weberc2 7y ago
  The Celts used to live all over Europe; they were displaced and assimilated during various migrations, especially the Germanic tribes migrating south. "Ancestral Journeys" by Jean Manco provides a great overview based on linguistic, archeological, and historical evidence.