4 ms·

This is part of a general trend of outrageous spending on luxury items and experiences, often by young adults. Luxury goods are ascendant. Living within your me

by Gatsky 7y ago

This is part of a general trend of outrageous spending on luxury items and experiences, often by young adults. Luxury goods are ascendant. Living within your means seems to be an outdated ante-Millennial concept. Although there are other factors involved, I think it is a great and unprecedented triumph of modern advertising that they can convince people to go into debt for unnecessary crap. Pretty terrifying, frankly.

2000andlate 7y ago
Can we please stop this canard? The youngest millennials are in their mid to late 20s, and the oldest are in their late 30s. Please stop generalizing an entire generation that for the first time in American history is expected to be worse off than their parents.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  There were many generations that were worse off than their parents in American history. I don't know about you but I'd rather have not fought in a war, so any generation prior to a major war was better off than the one that followed. I think what you mean to say is: it's harder to live up to late 20th century mass media defined standards for individualism and hedonism. It's not really that surprising that such a thing wasn't infinitely scaleable.
  - 2000andlate 7y ago
    Nope, I mean they actually have less spending power than their parents, and that’s new: https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennia...
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      That report only looks at the 20th century generations, so I don't know that your original statement holds they're a generation "that for the first time in American history is expected to be worse off than their parents". It is also very dubious in its methodology. This is as close as that study gets to looking at raw, unmanipulated data: "To begin, we compare annual labor earnings of full-time workers who worked more than 30 hours per week (or 1,560 hours per year). As shown in the top row of the table, average real full-time labor earnings of male heads of all households declined between 1978 and 1998 and then rebounded over the next 16 years. On net, real average full-time labor earnings for males increased 10 percent between 1978 and 2014. However, younger male workers appear to have been left out of the labor earnings increase. Specifically, the real average full-time labor earnings of a millennial male household head in 2014 were about the same as those for a 11 comparable male Generation X household head in 1998 and over 10 percent lower than those for a comparable male baby boomer household head in 1978." "For female heads of all households, real average full-time labor earnings increased moderately between 1978 and 1998 and between 1998 and 2014, reflecting, in part, rising female educational attainment. However, the median labor earnings of female millennial household heads in 2014 were about 3 percent lower than those of comparable female Generation X household heads in 1998." "For families, the data show that real income of married couples grew, on net, from 1978 to 2014; this trend is seen in the sample of all households and in the sample of households headed by individuals younger than 33 years old and likely reflects the rise in the female labor force participation rate and the increase in the prevalence of dual income households. However, the net growth of real family income was smaller for young married couples than for married couples of all ages during this span of years." Aside from earnings and debt, for massive swaths of Americans there's been no better time to be alive than 2019. Violent crime, racism and sexism are at all time lows. Health care is expensive but much better than the past. Food is cheaper and there are healthier options. My original point is the strongest though. There are no wars. I'd rather be in debt than have my arms blown off in combat or have to kill people, all against my will because I got drafted.
      - 2000andlate 7y ago
        Wow I don’t care.
- Gatsky 7y ago
  No, the point applies to that generation. Obviously it isn’t a universal truth.
JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
I think it's much more that the prospect of owning a house in an area which one may want to live has gotten so expensive that many millennials just can't realistically factor in the possibility enough to save for one. And if you don't need to save up for or pay off a mortgage, you're gonna have some extra money lying around.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  I think the definition of "an area which one may want to live" has drastically narrowed. It used to be widely known that living in NY was very expensive and not something everyone expected to do. Now that seems to be table stakes. It's as if the image of upper class life got so normalized that middle class people no longer even realize that striving for it will send you to the poor house. I know a lot of people who have spent tons of money on international travel, justifying it in part by saying that housing is too expensive so might as well blow the money on "experiences". Those people live in NY and SF. They could have a bought a house very easily with the money they spent on travel (or a wedding as per the OP) if they were willing to live somewhere other than the most expensive places on earth.
  - JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
    This is more down to globalisation than anything else though, everything has become centralised into very specific hubs because it's more efficient and elsewhere has suffered. As someone who grew up in a pretty rural area in a small country, I can tell you there wasn't that much of a choice to remain there. A lot of the most expensive places to live are also becoming some of the only places where career prospects seem remotely strong.
dang 7y ago
Please don't post generational flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Gatsky 7y ago
  I'm sorry, I honestly didn't consider this flamewar material, and certainly wasn't trying to ignite one. As a I described in my comment, I think it is a trend. I'm not trying to suggest that everyone in a generation thinks and acts the same way.
  - dang 7y ago
    I believe you, and I'm sure that getting a reply like that is a bit of a surprise. It's just that we have a lot of experience with comments about generations turning into flamewars.

by Gatsky 7y ago

2000andlate 7y ago

Can we please stop this canard? The youngest millennials are in their mid to late 20s, and the oldest are in their late 30s. Please stop generalizing an entire generation that for the first time in American history is expected to be worse off than their parents.

malvosenior 7y ago
There were many generations that were worse off than their parents in American history. I don't know about you but I'd rather have not fought in a war, so any generation prior to a major war was better off than the one that followed. I think what you mean to say is: it's harder to live up to late 20th century mass media defined standards for individualism and hedonism. It's not really that surprising that such a thing wasn't infinitely scaleable.
- 2000andlate 7y ago
  Nope, I mean they actually have less spending power than their parents, and that’s new: https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennia...
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    That report only looks at the 20th century generations, so I don't know that your original statement holds they're a generation "that for the first time in American history is expected to be worse off than their parents". It is also very dubious in its methodology. This is as close as that study gets to looking at raw, unmanipulated data: "To begin, we compare annual labor earnings of full-time workers who worked more than 30 hours per week (or 1,560 hours per year). As shown in the top row of the table, average real full-time labor earnings of male heads of all households declined between 1978 and 1998 and then rebounded over the next 16 years. On net, real average full-time labor earnings for males increased 10 percent between 1978 and 2014. However, younger male workers appear to have been left out of the labor earnings increase. Specifically, the real average full-time labor earnings of a millennial male household head in 2014 were about the same as those for a 11 comparable male Generation X household head in 1998 and over 10 percent lower than those for a comparable male baby boomer household head in 1978." "For female heads of all households, real average full-time labor earnings increased moderately between 1978 and 1998 and between 1998 and 2014, reflecting, in part, rising female educational attainment. However, the median labor earnings of female millennial household heads in 2014 were about 3 percent lower than those of comparable female Generation X household heads in 1998." "For families, the data show that real income of married couples grew, on net, from 1978 to 2014; this trend is seen in the sample of all households and in the sample of households headed by individuals younger than 33 years old and likely reflects the rise in the female labor force participation rate and the increase in the prevalence of dual income households. However, the net growth of real family income was smaller for young married couples than for married couples of all ages during this span of years." Aside from earnings and debt, for massive swaths of Americans there's been no better time to be alive than 2019. Violent crime, racism and sexism are at all time lows. Health care is expensive but much better than the past. Food is cheaper and there are healthier options. My original point is the strongest though. There are no wars. I'd rather be in debt than have my arms blown off in combat or have to kill people, all against my will because I got drafted.
    - 2000andlate 7y ago
      Wow I don’t care.
Gatsky 7y ago
No, the point applies to that generation. Obviously it isn’t a universal truth.

JansjoFromIkea 7y ago

I think it's much more that the prospect of owning a house in an area which one may want to live has gotten so expensive that many millennials just can't realistically factor in the possibility enough to save for one. And if you don't need to save up for or pay off a mortgage, you're gonna have some extra money lying around.

malvosenior 7y ago
I think the definition of "an area which one may want to live" has drastically narrowed. It used to be widely known that living in NY was very expensive and not something everyone expected to do. Now that seems to be table stakes. It's as if the image of upper class life got so normalized that middle class people no longer even realize that striving for it will send you to the poor house. I know a lot of people who have spent tons of money on international travel, justifying it in part by saying that housing is too expensive so might as well blow the money on "experiences". Those people live in NY and SF. They could have a bought a house very easily with the money they spent on travel (or a wedding as per the OP) if they were willing to live somewhere other than the most expensive places on earth.
- JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
  This is more down to globalisation than anything else though, everything has become centralised into very specific hubs because it's more efficient and elsewhere has suffered. As someone who grew up in a pretty rural area in a small country, I can tell you there wasn't that much of a choice to remain there. A lot of the most expensive places to live are also becoming some of the only places where career prospects seem remotely strong.

dang 7y ago

Please don't post generational flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Gatsky 7y ago
I'm sorry, I honestly didn't consider this flamewar material, and certainly wasn't trying to ignite one. As a I described in my comment, I think it is a trend. I'm not trying to suggest that everyone in a generation thinks and acts the same way.
- dang 7y ago
  I believe you, and I'm sure that getting a reply like that is a bit of a surprise. It's just that we have a lot of experience with comments about generations turning into flamewars.