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https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/201902 https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/201902 NOAA indicates that the global ice levels are increasing, a

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/201902 https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global-snow/201902 NOAA indicates that the global ice levels are increasing, and ice is growing in areas that previously did not host such a large amount of ice before, ie, the ice is moving to new locations as the climate changes. This is mostly related to the increase in variability of NAM and SAM (as in, the increasing change of the jet streams from their usual positions) due to decreased solar heating of the Earth. https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/solar-activity-forecast-for-next-decade-favorable-for-exploration https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/solar-activity-forecast-fo... NASA has predicted that the solar cycle starting this year, or the next cycle, is highly likely starting another grand minimum and will last for at least the next few cycles; this is the lowest activity in 200 years (or since the previous grand minimum). The previous grand minimum was the Dalton minimum, and lasted from 1790 to 1820, and lasted 30 years, and was considered mild based on what we know of previous grand minimums. During the Dalton minimum, the "Little Ice Age" occurred, which lead to massive crop losses in Europe and North America, including unusually long and wet springs that delayed the planting season (just like this year). So, I'm going to consider this Guardian article at least partially debunked. Although this is a disaster for the Himalayan region, NOAA and NASA's interpretation of the data does not favor the rather opinionated and biased language in the article.

graeme 7y ago
I looked at your NOAA link. I could be mistaken, but I think it said the snow cover extent increased. Ie was there snow on the ground in a given area. Snow that melts come spring. This isn’t ice. Is there something in your link that suggests ice is growing? The sea ice portion showed it to be shrinking. You’re claiming new glaciers are forming somewhere, basically. Your timeline of the Maunder minimum is completely wrong. This doesn’t lend confidence to your interpretation of the NASA report: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum
- seandougall 7y ago
  Yeah, the NASA article says, "it will be the weakest of the last 200 years." It does not say, "it will last 200 years". Those missing words between "will" and "last" are rather crucial.
- DiabloD3 7y ago
  Sorry, typo, meant to write Dalton. Maunder was the one before that.
ceejayoz 7y ago
> NOAA indicates that the global ice levels are increasing Your link does not appear to actually indicate that. > ice is growing in areas that previously did not host such a large amount of ice before That's not as good news as you think. https://qz.com/1249126/a-new-study-on-increased-snowfall-in-antarctica-shows-the-dramatic-pace-of-climate-change/ https://qz.com/1249126/a-new-study-on-increased-snowfall-in-... > It may sound odd to hear news of more snow during a time when scientists keep uncovering more evidence that polar ice caps are melting, raising sea levels around the world. But it makes sense, and it’s not a good sign for the Earth. Warmer temperatures mean more moisture in the air, which creates better conditions for snow over Antarctica. So really, this is a sign of the same climate problems causing droughts, storms, and floods. > A 2012 study published in the journal Nature suggested more snow correlated with an increase in the rate at which ice breaks and floats away. Large portions of Antarctica are desert because it's too cold to snow there year-round. Snow in those regions is not a good sign.
- DiabloD3 7y ago
  https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/sea-ice-thickness-data-sets-overview-comparison-table https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/sea-ice-thick... "Major limitations in the spatial and temporal coverage of sea ice thickness, which prevent a consistent record of long-term change and variability". https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/styles/node_lightbox_display/public/key_figures/climate_data_set/NSIDC_Kwok2015.png https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/styles... Graph illustrates uptick in ice thickness, a reverse in the trend over the past ~20 years. Graph does not include even more recent data, unfortunately (it continues going up).
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Again, I'm not sure why you're citing these sources, which appear to directly contradict your apparent argument. First link: "Reconstructions using numerous observational sources show a 65% decline in annual mean sea ice thickness in the central Arctic since the 1970s." Second link shows a single year's datapoint being higher than the trend line. Given this, I'm not inclined to just accept your assertion that the Cryosat-2 data continues to climb. I did some Googling to find the more recent data from ESA and http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts_large=1&ts_area_or_point=all&basin_selected=0&show_basin_thickness=0&year=2018&season=Autumn&imonth=11&thk_period=28 http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts... indicates it hasn't. edit: Sorry, the above chart is sea ice thickness. Your chart shows sea ice volume. ESA makes volume available, too. Same issue - the ongoing data doesn't show the 2014/2015 spike continuing. 2016-present appears to return to the recent average. http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts_large=1&ts_area_or_point=all&basin_selected=0&show_basin_thickness=0&thk_period=0&select_thk_vol=select_vol&year=2018&imonth=11&season=Autumn http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts...

graeme 7y ago

I looked at your NOAA link. I could be mistaken, but I think it said the snow cover extent increased. Ie was there snow on the ground in a given area. Snow that melts come spring. This isn’t ice. Is there something in your link that suggests ice is growing? The sea ice portion showed it to be shrinking. You’re claiming new glaciers are forming somewhere, basically. Your timeline of the Maunder minimum is completely wrong. This doesn’t lend confidence to your interpretation of the NASA report: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum

seandougall 7y ago
Yeah, the NASA article says, "it will be the weakest of the last 200 years." It does not say, "it will last 200 years". Those missing words between "will" and "last" are rather crucial.
DiabloD3 7y ago
Sorry, typo, meant to write Dalton. Maunder was the one before that.

ceejayoz 7y ago

> NOAA indicates that the global ice levels are increasing Your link does not appear to actually indicate that. > ice is growing in areas that previously did not host such a large amount of ice before That's not as good news as you think. https://qz.com/1249126/a-new-study-on-increased-snowfall-in-antarctica-shows-the-dramatic-pace-of-climate-change/ https://qz.com/1249126/a-new-study-on-increased-snowfall-in-... > It may sound odd to hear news of more snow during a time when scientists keep uncovering more evidence that polar ice caps are melting, raising sea levels around the world. But it makes sense, and it’s not a good sign for the Earth. Warmer temperatures mean more moisture in the air, which creates better conditions for snow over Antarctica. So really, this is a sign of the same climate problems causing droughts, storms, and floods. > A 2012 study published in the journal Nature suggested more snow correlated with an increase in the rate at which ice breaks and floats away. Large portions of Antarctica are desert because it's too cold to snow there year-round. Snow in those regions is not a good sign.

DiabloD3 7y ago
https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/sea-ice-thickness-data-sets-overview-comparison-table https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/sea-ice-thick... "Major limitations in the spatial and temporal coverage of sea ice thickness, which prevent a consistent record of long-term change and variability". https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/styles/node_lightbox_display/public/key_figures/climate_data_set/NSIDC_Kwok2015.png https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/styles... Graph illustrates uptick in ice thickness, a reverse in the trend over the past ~20 years. Graph does not include even more recent data, unfortunately (it continues going up).
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Again, I'm not sure why you're citing these sources, which appear to directly contradict your apparent argument. First link: "Reconstructions using numerous observational sources show a 65% decline in annual mean sea ice thickness in the central Arctic since the 1970s." Second link shows a single year's datapoint being higher than the trend line. Given this, I'm not inclined to just accept your assertion that the Cryosat-2 data continues to climb. I did some Googling to find the more recent data from ESA and http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts_large=1&ts_area_or_point=all&basin_selected=0&show_basin_thickness=0&year=2018&season=Autumn&imonth=11&thk_period=28 http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts... indicates it hasn't. edit: Sorry, the above chart is sea ice thickness. Your chart shows sea ice volume. ESA makes volume available, too. Same issue - the ongoing data doesn't show the 2014/2015 spike continuing. 2016-present appears to return to the recent average. http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts_large=1&ts_area_or_point=all&basin_selected=0&show_basin_thickness=0&thk_period=0&select_thk_vol=select_vol&year=2018&imonth=11&season=Autumn http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?show_cell_thk_ts...