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We humans have a hard time dealing comprehensively with these multi-factor problems that have a synergistic destructive impact and tend to only take action if w

We humans have a hard time dealing comprehensively with these multi-factor problems that have a synergistic destructive impact and tend to only take action if we think there is a simple solution. How can we coordinate large scale responses to help solve a problem like colony collapse disorder when there is no singular cause to blame ?

jillesvangurp 7y ago
Do like the French and simply issue a blanket ban on some of the pesticides involved: https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/ban-on-neonicotinoid-insecticides-france-is-leading-the-way-in-europe https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/ban-on-neonicotinoid-insectic... Some solutions are that simple. Stop doing the things that we know are bad. We had functioning agriculture before people started using this. Part of the problem is assuming these things are hard to solve. They are not but it does require measures that are inevitably going to hurt some companies with powerful lobbies. I don't see how this can be avoided though. There's probably a few more things that need to be banned. But this seems like a good start.
- snarf21 7y ago
  Exactly, we need to stop waiting until we have 1000% clarity on which ones are truly responsible. Ban them all and see if they recover in 5 years.
  - ptah 7y ago
    they should be banned by default until it is proven by the inventors that they cause no harm
- tptacek 7y ago
  What exactly will that do about the Varroa mites?
  - Angostura 7y ago
    Since it is apparently multi-factoral it will remove one of the factors. Hopefully the bees will be able to cope better with the remaining factors.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      Varroa mites eradicated feral honey bees in North America long before the new pesticides were introduced.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    Neonicotinoids hinder bee's resistance to Varroa mites [1]. I believe industry exploited this by testing neonicotinoids in regions without the mites, so the adverse effect would be hidden, but I can't find a source right now. [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190422112818.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190422112818.h...
    - tptacek 7y ago
      The Varroa epidemic was widely publicized (and, again, apparently eradicated feral honey bees) in the 1980s, before the widespread use of neonicotinoids.
      - deogeo 7y ago
        That does not imply neonicotinoids don't reduce varroa resistance. For example, some bee types may be more resistant to varroa than others, so they were not eradicated in the first epidemics, but now that their resistance is lowered by neonicotinoids, they are being affected as well.
        tptacek 7y ago
        This is getting pretty close to special pleading. No matter what fact pattern we establish, I concede that there will be some narrative you can generate that will put the weight of the honey bee die-off on neonicotinoids. It's just unlikely to be a true narrative.

jillesvangurp 7y ago

Do like the French and simply issue a blanket ban on some of the pesticides involved: https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/ban-on-neonicotinoid-insecticides-france-is-leading-the-way-in-europe https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/ban-on-neonicotinoid-insectic... Some solutions are that simple. Stop doing the things that we know are bad. We had functioning agriculture before people started using this. Part of the problem is assuming these things are hard to solve. They are not but it does require measures that are inevitably going to hurt some companies with powerful lobbies. I don't see how this can be avoided though. There's probably a few more things that need to be banned. But this seems like a good start.

snarf21 7y ago
Exactly, we need to stop waiting until we have 1000% clarity on which ones are truly responsible. Ban them all and see if they recover in 5 years.
- ptah 7y ago
  they should be banned by default until it is proven by the inventors that they cause no harm
tptacek 7y ago
What exactly will that do about the Varroa mites?
- Angostura 7y ago
  Since it is apparently multi-factoral it will remove one of the factors. Hopefully the bees will be able to cope better with the remaining factors.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    Varroa mites eradicated feral honey bees in North America long before the new pesticides were introduced.
- deogeo 7y ago
  Neonicotinoids hinder bee's resistance to Varroa mites [1]. I believe industry exploited this by testing neonicotinoids in regions without the mites, so the adverse effect would be hidden, but I can't find a source right now. [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190422112818.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190422112818.h...
  - tptacek 7y ago
    The Varroa epidemic was widely publicized (and, again, apparently eradicated feral honey bees) in the 1980s, before the widespread use of neonicotinoids.
    - deogeo 7y ago
      That does not imply neonicotinoids don't reduce varroa resistance. For example, some bee types may be more resistant to varroa than others, so they were not eradicated in the first epidemics, but now that their resistance is lowered by neonicotinoids, they are being affected as well.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        This is getting pretty close to special pleading. No matter what fact pattern we establish, I concede that there will be some narrative you can generate that will put the weight of the honey bee die-off on neonicotinoids. It's just unlikely to be a true narrative.