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What's wrong with the UX of IRC? IRC is a protocol, not a specific client, and it supports a wide variety of server and client plugins. We had a really nice IRC

What's wrong with the UX of IRC? IRC is a protocol, not a specific client, and it supports a wide variety of server and client plugins. We had a really nice IRC going productively for a year or two, but we scrapped it because only our software developer used it and other people in the company preferred something else (they used a mix of email, Google chat/hangouts, and text). The nice thing about IRC is that everyone can use whatever client they like and it will just work. I preferred command-line UX (irssi) because most of my job is based around the terminal, others prefer desktop clients, while others prefer web clients, and all were available for our IRC server. Our problem was that management wanted everyone on the same thing, and neither side (IRC vs Google chat) wanted to switch (they liked integration with web Gmail, we liked extensibility, and had already built useful plugins, like "run a build"). In the end, they didn't like our "less professional" plugins (Chuck Norris facts, gifs, etc), and we ended up compromising on Slack (we rebuilt some of our custom integrations). We went through a year or so of adjustment, and now we're reasonably productive with it. However, morale is a bit lower, and I think we're a bit less productive than before, but that's really hard to judge. Honestly, I just wish there was some nicer looking IRC client. I don't like trusting Slack and would prefer the tried and true protocol that we can tweak and just pay for a flashier client for those who like such things. However, it's better than the previous situation where teams just didn't communicate in text because they couldn't agree on a medium, which led to more interruptions than the annoying Slack notifications (non developers tend to always @ the tech lead instead of letting it be answered by whomever happens to be looking at the channel). I think it's wrong to blame IRC here. The UX of IRC is fine, it just doesn't have a flashy client (pidgin is really easy to use and available everywhere, but it's kind of ugly).

golergka 7y ago
Can you log on to IRC from your phone and then instantly search through all of your company's chat history through the last couple of years?
- OrgNet 7y ago
  You can, if you log everything... and there are many websites that provide search engines for public channels... you could do the same for your private IRC server. If you don't mind having all of your data in the cloud, use slack.
- kuschku 7y ago
  Sure, that's exactly what I'm doing all the time. I can search my logs easily https://i.imgur.com/nTpoYs0.png https://i.imgur.com/nTpoYs0.png (soon with even better integration, the prototype is a separate web app), and I can just open the web client or app on any device on this planet and instantly have all my logs and channels, and just chat: https://i.k8r.eu/54BPMQ.png https://i.k8r.eu/54BPMQ.png Of course, I use self-hosted quassel and quasseldroid. Many other projects such as weechat and IRCCloud are also working on making IRC better than slack at everything it does — IRCCloud has a web client, mobile client, hosted team servers, a slack bridge, reactions, threads, emoji, attachments, and all you'd want from slack, natively. Other projects such as IRC.com are also working on bringing the feq advantages Slack has back to IRC to make it more attractive. The one single real advantage of Slack is marketing. They can call companies and spend a lot on money on getting more customers, due to the VC funding.
  - ubermonkey 7y ago
    "The one single real advantage of Slack is marketing." Respectfully, NO. Providing a very useful turnkey set of features out of the box that are technically possible but fiddly and hard to use in IRC is in and of itself a huge advantage. This is why they're successful. This is why people use it. This is why people use it who barely know what a command line IS.
    - kuschku 7y ago
      If you want that, you can just use IRCCloud, it has all that in a single solution. Just like Slack. IRCCloud can even connect to Slack workspaces. The only advantage Slack has over IRCCloud is marketing. It's relatively ironic that I have to end up praising IRCCloud here, considering I'm contributing to a competing IRC client.
      - rakoo 7y ago
        But when you use IRCCloud you don't use the IRC protocol anymore, you use the IRCCloud protocol. Which is the same as using the Slack protocol. Your features aren't available outside IRCCloud. Your account, your data, your history, everything is tied to IRCCloud. You haven't gained anything compared to Slack. You're advocating for the _exact_ same model and you don't realize that the only way to have the same features as Slack in an easy way is to basically do what Slack does. You're just agreeing with what the parent is saying.
smugglerFlynn 7y ago
Exactly. And the only company out there that was able to stitch together more or less usable UX for a group messenger is Slack. IRC has no such killer app (sorry IRC fans!..)
michaelt 7y ago
What's wrong with the UX of IRC? * No user accounts, except via a baffling NickServ process involving things like 'ghosting' * Poor abuse tools, e.g. accidentally IP-banning web IRC gateways. * No searchable history * No scrollback / visibility of messages that arrived while you were offline * No support for uploading images or files. * No sharing of a single identity / session across multiple clients (e.g. phone+pc+laptop) As a veteran IRC user I know you can mitigate these problems by getting a shell account on an always-on unix server and running Irssi in Screen over SSH with logging, automated NickServ login, a bot to provide !seen and !tell, sharing images via Imgur, sharing files by uploading them to my personal website, and so on. Slack has simply looked at the big collection of bodges I just described and made them native features. And you don't even need to know to use Ctrl+Alt+2 to change between channels like you do with ssh+screen+irssi.
ccantana 7y ago
> What's wrong with the UX of IRC? One sentence later: > ...we scrapped it because only our software developer used it and other people in the company preferred something else (they used a mix of email, Google chat/hangouts, and text). Clearly something was wrong with the UX if only one person was willing to use it? This place is a parody of itself sometimes.
- el_cujo 7y ago
  I think they may have left off the "s" from developers, based on context it seems like there must have been multiple people who liked it enough to build plugins. Sounds more like a "developers vs. management" kind of thing rather than "our one IT guy tried to sell the whole company on IRC".
  - ccantana 7y ago
    Typo aside, that does not materially affect the point. “Management” in this case appears to be every other team at the company...
    - el_cujo 7y ago
      The point you were making is that a single rabid IRC fan was trying to steer the rest of the company, so actually I'd say the typo certainly does affect the point.

golergka 7y ago

Can you log on to IRC from your phone and then instantly search through all of your company's chat history through the last couple of years?

OrgNet 7y ago
You can, if you log everything... and there are many websites that provide search engines for public channels... you could do the same for your private IRC server. If you don't mind having all of your data in the cloud, use slack.
kuschku 7y ago
Sure, that's exactly what I'm doing all the time. I can search my logs easily https://i.imgur.com/nTpoYs0.png https://i.imgur.com/nTpoYs0.png (soon with even better integration, the prototype is a separate web app), and I can just open the web client or app on any device on this planet and instantly have all my logs and channels, and just chat: https://i.k8r.eu/54BPMQ.png https://i.k8r.eu/54BPMQ.png Of course, I use self-hosted quassel and quasseldroid. Many other projects such as weechat and IRCCloud are also working on making IRC better than slack at everything it does — IRCCloud has a web client, mobile client, hosted team servers, a slack bridge, reactions, threads, emoji, attachments, and all you'd want from slack, natively. Other projects such as IRC.com are also working on bringing the feq advantages Slack has back to IRC to make it more attractive. The one single real advantage of Slack is marketing. They can call companies and spend a lot on money on getting more customers, due to the VC funding.
- ubermonkey 7y ago
  "The one single real advantage of Slack is marketing." Respectfully, NO. Providing a very useful turnkey set of features out of the box that are technically possible but fiddly and hard to use in IRC is in and of itself a huge advantage. This is why they're successful. This is why people use it. This is why people use it who barely know what a command line IS.
  - kuschku 7y ago
    If you want that, you can just use IRCCloud, it has all that in a single solution. Just like Slack. IRCCloud can even connect to Slack workspaces. The only advantage Slack has over IRCCloud is marketing. It's relatively ironic that I have to end up praising IRCCloud here, considering I'm contributing to a competing IRC client.
    - rakoo 7y ago
      But when you use IRCCloud you don't use the IRC protocol anymore, you use the IRCCloud protocol. Which is the same as using the Slack protocol. Your features aren't available outside IRCCloud. Your account, your data, your history, everything is tied to IRCCloud. You haven't gained anything compared to Slack. You're advocating for the _exact_ same model and you don't realize that the only way to have the same features as Slack in an easy way is to basically do what Slack does. You're just agreeing with what the parent is saying.

smugglerFlynn 7y ago

Exactly. And the only company out there that was able to stitch together more or less usable UX for a group messenger is Slack. IRC has no such killer app (sorry IRC fans!..)

michaelt 7y ago

What's wrong with the UX of IRC? * No user accounts, except via a baffling NickServ process involving things like 'ghosting' * Poor abuse tools, e.g. accidentally IP-banning web IRC gateways. * No searchable history * No scrollback / visibility of messages that arrived while you were offline * No support for uploading images or files. * No sharing of a single identity / session across multiple clients (e.g. phone+pc+laptop) As a veteran IRC user I know you can mitigate these problems by getting a shell account on an always-on unix server and running Irssi in Screen over SSH with logging, automated NickServ login, a bot to provide !seen and !tell, sharing images via Imgur, sharing files by uploading them to my personal website, and so on. Slack has simply looked at the big collection of bodges I just described and made them native features. And you don't even need to know to use Ctrl+Alt+2 to change between channels like you do with ssh+screen+irssi.

ccantana 7y ago

> What's wrong with the UX of IRC? One sentence later: > ...we scrapped it because only our software developer used it and other people in the company preferred something else (they used a mix of email, Google chat/hangouts, and text). Clearly something was wrong with the UX if only one person was willing to use it? This place is a parody of itself sometimes.

el_cujo 7y ago
I think they may have left off the "s" from developers, based on context it seems like there must have been multiple people who liked it enough to build plugins. Sounds more like a "developers vs. management" kind of thing rather than "our one IT guy tried to sell the whole company on IRC".
- ccantana 7y ago
  Typo aside, that does not materially affect the point. “Management” in this case appears to be every other team at the company...
  - el_cujo 7y ago
    The point you were making is that a single rabid IRC fan was trying to steer the rest of the company, so actually I'd say the typo certainly does affect the point.