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My father passed away earlier this year. Not that old but for the last 3 years of his life, he was unable to get up (body weakened by diabetes and a round of ca

My father passed away earlier this year. Not that old but for the last 3 years of his life, he was unable to get up (body weakened by diabetes and a round of cancer), unable to see (almost 95% blind), and for the last 7 months unable to even speak. I do not live with the family so did not interfere but in my mind the question always was "what is the purpose of living at this point" whereas in the minds of close family and doctors: how else can we prolong life! To what purpose, I could never figure out. Whether we call them death panels or whatever is the current demagoguery term, I think we need to discuss them more because I definitely would not want to linger like that.

jessaustin 7y ago
If that is your preference, you may need to take responsibility for it. The default in the medical community is to prolong, so if you're far enough gone that they control your fate then that is what will happen. "Living wills" exist but IME they change what gets argued about not the result.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Of course it's the default. It both makes them money and absolves them of having to make a decision (and rightfully so IMO, should be up to the patient and family).
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Maybe? There are trade-offs. Since patients can't trust hospitals to stop heroic lifesaving efforts precisely when patients choose (rather than a month later after all the arguments have been exhausted), they end up avoiding hospitals and receiving both less palliative care and less care in general.
nashashmi 7y ago
Think of it as a vaccine for community. My grandfather passed away recently too. He had been 2 weeks away from death at the slightest sickness for two years. At the point of failure, his heart was at 10%, lungs at 20%, kidney on dialysis, swelling in body, GI bleeding, but conscious and tired. All were treatable but only after surgery which nobody was sure he could endure. When things got bad, there was no option but surgery. He passed away shortly after emergency surgery. The grandchildren witnessed and were there to take care of him. They witnessed the parents taking care of him. They witnessed family coming together and LIVING. They were part of a tradition that needs to live on. Because deep inside it nurtures a thing called care and love. In community. The sick and dying exist and persist to nurture a calmness in our communities and it is essential in an era when time is moving faster than life. There is a saying that goes like "Curse be he who witnesses his parents reach old age but does not take care of them." Not everyone is fortunate to witness that."
- wwweston 7y ago
  This is a great and much-needed comment. There's absolutely a need for many Americans (and perhaps other Westerners) to re-examine approaches to death, and judgment about when it's best to prolonging life and when it's best to avoid intervening. But that reckoning may not be as thoughtful as it needs to be if it's all about thresholds of individual capability; it may need to be nested in a larger conversation about what makes life valuable as age may diminish that capability.

jessaustin 7y ago

If that is your preference, you may need to take responsibility for it. The default in the medical community is to prolong, so if you're far enough gone that they control your fate then that is what will happen. "Living wills" exist but IME they change what gets argued about not the result.

Mikeb85 7y ago
Of course it's the default. It both makes them money and absolves them of having to make a decision (and rightfully so IMO, should be up to the patient and family).
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Maybe? There are trade-offs. Since patients can't trust hospitals to stop heroic lifesaving efforts precisely when patients choose (rather than a month later after all the arguments have been exhausted), they end up avoiding hospitals and receiving both less palliative care and less care in general.

nashashmi 7y ago

Think of it as a vaccine for community. My grandfather passed away recently too. He had been 2 weeks away from death at the slightest sickness for two years. At the point of failure, his heart was at 10%, lungs at 20%, kidney on dialysis, swelling in body, GI bleeding, but conscious and tired. All were treatable but only after surgery which nobody was sure he could endure. When things got bad, there was no option but surgery. He passed away shortly after emergency surgery. The grandchildren witnessed and were there to take care of him. They witnessed the parents taking care of him. They witnessed family coming together and LIVING. They were part of a tradition that needs to live on. Because deep inside it nurtures a thing called care and love. In community. The sick and dying exist and persist to nurture a calmness in our communities and it is essential in an era when time is moving faster than life. There is a saying that goes like "Curse be he who witnesses his parents reach old age but does not take care of them." Not everyone is fortunate to witness that."

wwweston 7y ago
This is a great and much-needed comment. There's absolutely a need for many Americans (and perhaps other Westerners) to re-examine approaches to death, and judgment about when it's best to prolonging life and when it's best to avoid intervening. But that reckoning may not be as thoughtful as it needs to be if it's all about thresholds of individual capability; it may need to be nested in a larger conversation about what makes life valuable as age may diminish that capability.