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This is why diversity is so important! Not only in business, but in general — everyone has huge blind spots, no matter what background they have. Life is much l

This is why diversity is so important! Not only in business, but in general — everyone has huge blind spots, no matter what background they have. Life is much larger and more diverse than people usually imagine. Interacting and learning from people with different backgrounds than yours is a fundamentally rewarding experience, although it can be hard at times.

ravenstine 7y ago
It has to be taken seriously by management, however. I've worked at a few places where diversity was king but upper management continued to make the decisions of aging middle-class white folks. Not that I have a problem with that in and of itself, but it was funny how they would hire lots of women and minorities, say that they wanted to target undeserved demographics, but then never actually attempt to do it. Diversity is, more often than not, a veneer.
- closetohome 7y ago
  The unfortunate result of viewing diversity as a performance metric to hit, rather than a real and decisive advantage.
  - whenchamenia 7y ago
    And percicely the metric being pushed for by those who should know better. You can't quantify viewpoint diversity in a spreadsheet or quarterly report.
- taneq 7y ago
  "Undeserved" instead of "underserved" is an unfortunate typo there... :P
  - ravenstine 7y ago
    Yep, that's what I meant. Thanks!
ThomPete 7y ago
The problem with diversity is that it's thought of wrongly most of the times. What people think of is not actually the diversity that creates the value. I believe many groups that are diverse by gender or race or ethnic composition are actually quite similar if they are the same age even though they might have different upbringings. I explored this subject in this essay a while back which was based on some reflections I did after an ASK HN i did became quite popular. https://medium.com/black-n-white/the-problem-with-problems-47ee63bb3511 https://medium.com/black-n-white/the-problem-with-problems-4... my conclusion was "which diversity" is an important discussion to have.
- siphon22 7y ago
  >"Were are problems?" What is this sentence? I had to stop reading here.
  - siphon22 7y ago
    Yes, downvote instead of acknowledging the mistake and fixing it so that people can understand what you're saying.
    - icelancer 7y ago
      On HN you cannot downvote someone who responds to you, so uh, that's not what is happening.
      - siphon22 7y ago
        I apologize for the wrong assumption, it's just confusing why anyone else would downvote me for asking a genuine question that was also just informing the writer of the medium post about a mistake that may have confused other readers too.
        icebraining 7y ago
        Informing the author about a mistake is usually OK. But the "I had to stop reading here" line sounds dismissive and somewhat rude. But I may also be wrong about why people downvoted you; sometimes it just seem random, so you shouldn't take it too seriously.
slimsag 7y ago
I 100% agree. But it's important that diversity be considered in all forms, not just based on race/sex. If your "diverse" team is made up of different ethnicities and genders but only consists of ivy league members who grew up in California... well, not really diverse then, is it?
- opportune 7y ago
  Class diversity is pretty hard to achieve because you usually need some baseline class to actually be able to succeed in a role, i.e. you can't show up to a meeting with customers or shareholders chewing dip and wearing camo jorts. And social mobility from lower classes into corporate-ready roles is rather low in this country, so while there certainly are people who grew up poor and would be useful for companies to figure out what lower class consumers might need, there aren't many of them; furthermore, for the people who did grow up that way and into being a person able to function in the corporate sphere, it's probably in part due to their rejection of their poor background. Maybe we just need more focus groups.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    All these "diverse" people are gonna rub the mostly middle upper class decision makers the wrong way unless they specifically work to fit in. You can leave the trailer park but the trailer park will never leave you. Also, once you've "made it" your needs change too. You might still be trailer trash but you're trailer trash with money which is rare. Working in an environment where there is nobody like you and you have to always be on your toes for culture conflict is work! These people already get more than enough time outside of their comfort zone and most are more than happy to cash their paycheck because from their frame of reference that's more than enough "success". They don't feel the need to preach about what "their people" are like because they're outliers at work and they're outliers when they go home and that doesn't exactly make one feel authoritative on the topic. I'm not sure what I'm saying here but it's not as simple as "listen to the diverse people" or "more focus groups".
  - sverige 7y ago
    Settle down, Nigel. No one's seriously suggesting a law mandating class diversity. Focus groups will be good enough.
rolltiide 7y ago
I think the cultural ideal of meritocracy needs to be addressed, and this is conflating two separate issues: 1) People of certain backgrounds want to and need to prove they CAN compete. 2) People of certain backgrounds should be helping make decisions even without credentials. so there are both competent and less competent people that need to be included. "wait what why? I wasted way too much of my life to accept why less competitive people should have such lucrative roles" because the profit engine doesn't really need to care about the human worker's competency, it only needs to expand the addressable market. having already reached peak engagement, the business processes have already reached the evolutionary zenith for the incumbent nepotism and meritocrat talent's way of tapping into human consumptive conscious. Expanding that market further requires perceptions that people in those markets can relate to.
- slg 7y ago
  The idea that a push for diversity is somehow in conflict with a meritocracy is deeply flawed because it relies on the idea that people with diverse backgrounds either haven't shown they are capable or that there are no people with diverse backgrounds that are capable. A good diversity program does two things: 1. It identifies and removes certain unnecessary credentials that might rule out people with diverse backgrounds. Requiring a college degree for applicants when a degree provides no benefit on the job is one example. 2. It makes an active effort to find and pursue diverse candidates. Odds are there are plenty of people who are competent enough to do the job. Let's imagine you are hiring 5 engineers from a pool of 100 qualified people. If there are only 10 diverse candidates in that pool and you just hired the first random qualified candidate you find, there is roughly a 60% chance that you end up with zero diversity on the team. If you actively work to get diverse candidates to apply and maybe get 10 additional diverse candidates added to the previous pool, you can still hire the first random qualified person but your odds drop to roughly 35% of having a team with zero diversity. TL;DR - You don't have to hire less qualified people to have diversity, it just takes a little more thought and effort to make diversity a priority.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    That’s a fantasy. The reality is that there aren’t enough diverse candidates to reach the diversity goals of every company without hiring incompetent people. If every company wants 50% women and the graduates with interests in CS come out at a 4:1 male to female ratio, the strive for diversity either needs to give up and hire what the pool provides or start giving underqualified women. TL;DR - Companies absolutely need to lower the bar for minorities if they want ratios that don’t match the pools. This problem is only made worse by the popularity of these very diversity programs.
davvolun 7y ago
I mean, it's a nice side effect of diversity, I really don't think Flaming Cheetohs, or finding Takis in every supermarket near me, are why diversity is so important.
- umanwizard 7y ago
  Your comment doesn’t explain why you actually do think it’s important.

ravenstine 7y ago

It has to be taken seriously by management, however. I've worked at a few places where diversity was king but upper management continued to make the decisions of aging middle-class white folks. Not that I have a problem with that in and of itself, but it was funny how they would hire lots of women and minorities, say that they wanted to target undeserved demographics, but then never actually attempt to do it. Diversity is, more often than not, a veneer.

closetohome 7y ago
The unfortunate result of viewing diversity as a performance metric to hit, rather than a real and decisive advantage.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  And percicely the metric being pushed for by those who should know better. You can't quantify viewpoint diversity in a spreadsheet or quarterly report.
taneq 7y ago
"Undeserved" instead of "underserved" is an unfortunate typo there... :P
- ravenstine 7y ago
  Yep, that's what I meant. Thanks!

ThomPete 7y ago

The problem with diversity is that it's thought of wrongly most of the times. What people think of is not actually the diversity that creates the value. I believe many groups that are diverse by gender or race or ethnic composition are actually quite similar if they are the same age even though they might have different upbringings. I explored this subject in this essay a while back which was based on some reflections I did after an ASK HN i did became quite popular. https://medium.com/black-n-white/the-problem-with-problems-47ee63bb3511 https://medium.com/black-n-white/the-problem-with-problems-4... my conclusion was "which diversity" is an important discussion to have.

siphon22 7y ago
>"Were are problems?" What is this sentence? I had to stop reading here.
- siphon22 7y ago
  Yes, downvote instead of acknowledging the mistake and fixing it so that people can understand what you're saying.
  - icelancer 7y ago
    On HN you cannot downvote someone who responds to you, so uh, that's not what is happening.
    - siphon22 7y ago
      I apologize for the wrong assumption, it's just confusing why anyone else would downvote me for asking a genuine question that was also just informing the writer of the medium post about a mistake that may have confused other readers too.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        Informing the author about a mistake is usually OK. But the "I had to stop reading here" line sounds dismissive and somewhat rude. But I may also be wrong about why people downvoted you; sometimes it just seem random, so you shouldn't take it too seriously.

slimsag 7y ago

I 100% agree. But it's important that diversity be considered in all forms, not just based on race/sex. If your "diverse" team is made up of different ethnicities and genders but only consists of ivy league members who grew up in California... well, not really diverse then, is it?

opportune 7y ago
Class diversity is pretty hard to achieve because you usually need some baseline class to actually be able to succeed in a role, i.e. you can't show up to a meeting with customers or shareholders chewing dip and wearing camo jorts. And social mobility from lower classes into corporate-ready roles is rather low in this country, so while there certainly are people who grew up poor and would be useful for companies to figure out what lower class consumers might need, there aren't many of them; furthermore, for the people who did grow up that way and into being a person able to function in the corporate sphere, it's probably in part due to their rejection of their poor background. Maybe we just need more focus groups.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  All these "diverse" people are gonna rub the mostly middle upper class decision makers the wrong way unless they specifically work to fit in. You can leave the trailer park but the trailer park will never leave you. Also, once you've "made it" your needs change too. You might still be trailer trash but you're trailer trash with money which is rare. Working in an environment where there is nobody like you and you have to always be on your toes for culture conflict is work! These people already get more than enough time outside of their comfort zone and most are more than happy to cash their paycheck because from their frame of reference that's more than enough "success". They don't feel the need to preach about what "their people" are like because they're outliers at work and they're outliers when they go home and that doesn't exactly make one feel authoritative on the topic. I'm not sure what I'm saying here but it's not as simple as "listen to the diverse people" or "more focus groups".
- sverige 7y ago
  Settle down, Nigel. No one's seriously suggesting a law mandating class diversity. Focus groups will be good enough.

rolltiide 7y ago

I think the cultural ideal of meritocracy needs to be addressed, and this is conflating two separate issues: 1) People of certain backgrounds want to and need to prove they CAN compete. 2) People of certain backgrounds should be helping make decisions even without credentials. so there are both competent and less competent people that need to be included. "wait what why? I wasted way too much of my life to accept why less competitive people should have such lucrative roles" because the profit engine doesn't really need to care about the human worker's competency, it only needs to expand the addressable market. having already reached peak engagement, the business processes have already reached the evolutionary zenith for the incumbent nepotism and meritocrat talent's way of tapping into human consumptive conscious. Expanding that market further requires perceptions that people in those markets can relate to.

slg 7y ago
The idea that a push for diversity is somehow in conflict with a meritocracy is deeply flawed because it relies on the idea that people with diverse backgrounds either haven't shown they are capable or that there are no people with diverse backgrounds that are capable. A good diversity program does two things: 1. It identifies and removes certain unnecessary credentials that might rule out people with diverse backgrounds. Requiring a college degree for applicants when a degree provides no benefit on the job is one example. 2. It makes an active effort to find and pursue diverse candidates. Odds are there are plenty of people who are competent enough to do the job. Let's imagine you are hiring 5 engineers from a pool of 100 qualified people. If there are only 10 diverse candidates in that pool and you just hired the first random qualified candidate you find, there is roughly a 60% chance that you end up with zero diversity on the team. If you actively work to get diverse candidates to apply and maybe get 10 additional diverse candidates added to the previous pool, you can still hire the first random qualified person but your odds drop to roughly 35% of having a team with zero diversity. TL;DR - You don't have to hire less qualified people to have diversity, it just takes a little more thought and effort to make diversity a priority.
- kortilla 7y ago
  That’s a fantasy. The reality is that there aren’t enough diverse candidates to reach the diversity goals of every company without hiring incompetent people. If every company wants 50% women and the graduates with interests in CS come out at a 4:1 male to female ratio, the strive for diversity either needs to give up and hire what the pool provides or start giving underqualified women. TL;DR - Companies absolutely need to lower the bar for minorities if they want ratios that don’t match the pools. This problem is only made worse by the popularity of these very diversity programs.

davvolun 7y ago

I mean, it's a nice side effect of diversity, I really don't think Flaming Cheetohs, or finding Takis in every supermarket near me, are why diversity is so important.

umanwizard 7y ago
Your comment doesn’t explain why you actually do think it’s important.