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It's mainly used by nonbinary (enby) people of Latin descent in the US who feel like both Latino and Latina are a poor fit. These threads always have the same

It's mainly used by nonbinary (enby) people of Latin descent in the US who feel like both Latino and Latina are a poor fit. These threads always have the same look as the ones where people complained about singular they. Latinx doesn't have centuries of use the way singular they does, but it doesn't really matter. It costs you nothing to respect another person's self-identification. Whether people should use it as a group term beyond enby Latin American descendants is another matter.

rosterface 7y ago
I agree. I’m talking about applying the term to people who don’t identify as non-binary. They are the people I know (myself included) who don’t like the term. I could see how it would be much more acceptable to non-binary people if they came up with the term to describe themselves.
- deleted 7y ago
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- tylerhou 7y ago
  I think it is more commonly used among younger people. For example, here is the 50th anniversary celebration for the Afro-Latinx Society at my high school: https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&gid=2&pgid=1920&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1066 https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&g... But I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've edited my comment to say Latino instead.
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    Why isn't it afrx-latinx?
    - tylerhou 7y ago
      Not sure if this is serious, but if it is, I assume it's because the -o suffix has a masculine connotation in Spanish but not Latin/English (where Afro comes from).
umanwizard 7y ago
The use of it that spawned this thread had nothing to do with gender identity and is clearly not talking about “nonbinary people”. And if we want to respect self-identification, we should reserve “Latinx” for the people who actually want to be called that way, not for whole communities 99% of whose members have never even heard the term.
oh_sigh 7y ago
not to go too far off topic but singular they does have a history of use for hundreds of years, but the current usage as demanded by some non-binary folk is different than the historical uses. It was historically used to either refer to a person of unknown gender, or to optionally refer to a person of a known gender. so your options for singular pronouns might be either he or they, or she or they. But historically (as far as I can tell) no one has ever demanded to be referred to solely by singular they. If you couldn't tell, I don't like demanded singular they prnouns very much. I have no problem calling a transgender person by their expressed gender, and I will refer to a person with they pronouns if they ask but I will secretly think that they are a jerk for requesting people do this thing. And finally, no, expanding latinx to people who don't want to be labeled as such is exactly the point of this thread because latinx was brought up just talking generally about the Latinos.
- CondensedBrain 7y ago
  >> "It was historically used to either refer to a person of unknown gender, or to optionally refer to a person of a known gender. so your options for singular pronouns might be either he or they, or she or they." That's the thing though. Enbies don't generally know their gender. If you would use they without anger for an unknown person of unknown gender, it makes no sense to be mad about using it for a known person of unknown gender. You still don't know their gender. Neither of you do. He/him, she/her, man and woman, and sir and ma'am can cause tremendous dysphoria. That's often part of how they know they're not binary. edit: reduced to key point
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    Perhaps a good start would be just identify as your biological sex.
    - shearskill 7y ago
      Or you could mind your own business about something that doesn’t affect you at all.
twic 7y ago
The only thing that puzzles me is you wouldn't just say "Latin", which is already an English word and doesn't imply a gender.
- eridius 7y ago
  Because nobody calls people from Mexico "Latin". If someone walked up to me and said "Hey I'm Latin" I'd be really confused. You're... a dead language?
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Because nobody calls people from Mexico "Latin". Yes, they do, “Latin” and “Hispanic” were the dominant terms in English before “Latino” and “Latina” took over and are still current though less common; the main reason Latino/Latina took over is because they respect terminology used in the described community, in a way Latinx (used generically, use as a label for enby members of the ethnicity may be different) does not.
keepper 7y ago
So I'll preface this by saying, I agree with the "It cost [me] nothing to respect someone's self-identification". I'm fully ok, and actively use gender pronouns as people wish. I respect self identification. But, as a hispanic, there was already a gender neutral term for this in english. ( hint, i already used it, there's also Latin ). LatinX unfortunately is a bastardization of grammar for a language that has pretty strongly enforced grammar ( hey, we have a "royal academy of language"). It's the introduction of a foreign language construct into Spanish, which is going to have a pretty strong negative reaction by, well, those who speak it. ( and they also have a right to self identify ) Others make better points than I ever will[0][1] The term "Latino" was a borrowing of a Spanish word into english, that already had a similar enough meaning in Spanish ( aside from gendering ) [0]https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hernandez-the-case-against-latinx-20171217-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hernandez-the-ca... [1]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinx-elitist-some-push-back-word-s-growing-use-n957036 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinx-elitist-some-push...
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dragonwriter 7y ago
> It's mainly used by nonbinary (enby) people of Latin descent in the US who feel like both Latino and Latina are a poor fit. It may be used that way, and that may be it's original use, but I don't think that's it's main use: AFAICT, the main use is as as a general gender-neutral alternative to “Latino” or “Latina” (i.e., basically equivalent to “Hispanic” or “Latin”, but awkward to pronounce either as an English or a Spanish word), often by people who are neither enby nor of Hispanic/Latino/Latina/Latinx ethnicity.

rosterface 7y ago

I agree. I’m talking about applying the term to people who don’t identify as non-binary. They are the people I know (myself included) who don’t like the term. I could see how it would be much more acceptable to non-binary people if they came up with the term to describe themselves.

deleted 7y ago
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tylerhou 7y ago
I think it is more commonly used among younger people. For example, here is the 50th anniversary celebration for the Afro-Latinx Society at my high school: https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&gid=2&pgid=1920&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1066 https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&g... But I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've edited my comment to say Latino instead.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  Why isn't it afrx-latinx?
  - tylerhou 7y ago
    Not sure if this is serious, but if it is, I assume it's because the -o suffix has a masculine connotation in Spanish but not Latin/English (where Afro comes from).

umanwizard 7y ago

The use of it that spawned this thread had nothing to do with gender identity and is clearly not talking about “nonbinary people”. And if we want to respect self-identification, we should reserve “Latinx” for the people who actually want to be called that way, not for whole communities 99% of whose members have never even heard the term.

oh_sigh 7y ago

not to go too far off topic but singular they does have a history of use for hundreds of years, but the current usage as demanded by some non-binary folk is different than the historical uses. It was historically used to either refer to a person of unknown gender, or to optionally refer to a person of a known gender. so your options for singular pronouns might be either he or they, or she or they. But historically (as far as I can tell) no one has ever demanded to be referred to solely by singular they. If you couldn't tell, I don't like demanded singular they prnouns very much. I have no problem calling a transgender person by their expressed gender, and I will refer to a person with they pronouns if they ask but I will secretly think that they are a jerk for requesting people do this thing. And finally, no, expanding latinx to people who don't want to be labeled as such is exactly the point of this thread because latinx was brought up just talking generally about the Latinos.

CondensedBrain 7y ago
>> "It was historically used to either refer to a person of unknown gender, or to optionally refer to a person of a known gender. so your options for singular pronouns might be either he or they, or she or they." That's the thing though. Enbies don't generally know their gender. If you would use they without anger for an unknown person of unknown gender, it makes no sense to be mad about using it for a known person of unknown gender. You still don't know their gender. Neither of you do. He/him, she/her, man and woman, and sir and ma'am can cause tremendous dysphoria. That's often part of how they know they're not binary. edit: reduced to key point
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  Perhaps a good start would be just identify as your biological sex.
  - shearskill 7y ago
    Or you could mind your own business about something that doesn’t affect you at all.

twic 7y ago

The only thing that puzzles me is you wouldn't just say "Latin", which is already an English word and doesn't imply a gender.

eridius 7y ago
Because nobody calls people from Mexico "Latin". If someone walked up to me and said "Hey I'm Latin" I'd be really confused. You're... a dead language?
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Because nobody calls people from Mexico "Latin". Yes, they do, “Latin” and “Hispanic” were the dominant terms in English before “Latino” and “Latina” took over and are still current though less common; the main reason Latino/Latina took over is because they respect terminology used in the described community, in a way Latinx (used generically, use as a label for enby members of the ethnicity may be different) does not.

keepper 7y ago

So I'll preface this by saying, I agree with the "It cost [me] nothing to respect someone's self-identification". I'm fully ok, and actively use gender pronouns as people wish. I respect self identification. But, as a hispanic, there was already a gender neutral term for this in english. ( hint, i already used it, there's also Latin ). LatinX unfortunately is a bastardization of grammar for a language that has pretty strongly enforced grammar ( hey, we have a "royal academy of language"). It's the introduction of a foreign language construct into Spanish, which is going to have a pretty strong negative reaction by, well, those who speak it. ( and they also have a right to self identify ) Others make better points than I ever will[0][1] The term "Latino" was a borrowing of a Spanish word into english, that already had a similar enough meaning in Spanish ( aside from gendering ) [0]https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hernandez-the-case-against-latinx-20171217-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-hernandez-the-ca... [1]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinx-elitist-some-push-back-word-s-growing-use-n957036 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinx-elitist-some-push...

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dragonwriter 7y ago

> It's mainly used by nonbinary (enby) people of Latin descent in the US who feel like both Latino and Latina are a poor fit. It may be used that way, and that may be it's original use, but I don't think that's it's main use: AFAICT, the main use is as as a general gender-neutral alternative to “Latino” or “Latina” (i.e., basically equivalent to “Hispanic” or “Latin”, but awkward to pronounce either as an English or a Spanish word), often by people who are neither enby nor of Hispanic/Latino/Latina/Latinx ethnicity.