6 ms·

My Mexican family loves Flamin’ Hot Cheetos (for real) and hates the term “latinx”. Just fyi but it’s considered racist in a lot of Mexican communities.

mandelbrotwurst 7y ago
why is it considered racist? I can think of some arguments against the term but am having a hard time figuring that one out. Maybe because they perceive it as having been coined by people from outside their group and/or changing the topic to focus on gender > racial justice?
- rosterface 7y ago
  Yes, that’s why they consider it racist. For the most part it’s a term from white academia. I don’t think anyone really wants to be told that the words they’ve used to describe themselves for generations must be changed, especially by people from another ethnicity all together.
  - keerthiko 7y ago
    Thanks for this interesting data point. Would you/they prefer to just be called latino? Is this common sentiment among Mexicans outside of your family? I can see latinx only being preferred by non-gender-conforming individuals to whom it applies, as opposed to when referring to individuals rather than to communities (families, neighborhoods, food, etc).
    - rosterface 7y ago
      I think more specific is always better. I’m of Mexican descent, I prefer to keep that identity. I’ve actually noticed people in the US sometimes struggle to say that as if being “Mexican” is a bad thing; it’s not, don’t be afraid of the term. Latino and Latina are also fine. Hispanic as well although that has a slightly different meaning. I think it’s best to call people by the terms that they use themselves. Foisting a new term on someone to describe their ethnicity doesn’t seem like it would ever be a good idea.
      - sverige 7y ago
        It's funny because I have been ridiculed for calling myself Swedish or Swedish-American instead of white. Somehow some people have even thought that's racist. But it is a strong identity in my family, and, for example, I really don't want to be lumped in with the people of Bavarian descent who made up about half of the town I grew up in. I'm nothing like them culturally. Honestly, "white" isn't an ethnicity and it is borderline insulting to think others can know all about me by my skin color, but I've given up on the idea that my opinion on this will make a difference. It is nice to say it out loud for the first time in years, though.
        9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
        With all due respect, if you were born in the US and grew up speaking English, you have a lot more common with those "Bavarians" than you do with Swedish people in Sweden.
        umanwizard 7y ago
        I was going to leave a similar comment, but decided not to. Anyway, I mostly agree with you -- I never refer to myself as "X-American" where X is some European country, because first of all I don't care much about it, and second I know how ridiculous it sounds to people who were born and raised in country X. On the other hand, I also think the Swedish-American OP has an understandable point. Cultural group identification is a natural, strong human urge, and it can be a bit arbitrary and not objectively correspond to actual observable culture or to ancestry. I wouldn't tell someone living in Serbia who identifies as a Croat that that's nonsense because from an outsider's perspective their culture is 99% indistinguishable from that of a Serb. They have their own reasons for identifying as part of that group, and it's important to them. And similarly I don't really think it's illegitimate for Nth generation white Americans to feel that they are "Swedish" or "Irish" in some way that means something to them. (With the understanding that, yes, they are culturally quite different from someone actually raised in Stockholm or Cork).
        7y ago
  - rexarex 7y ago
    The term came from South American feminists I don’t think it’s racist at all...
- microcolonel 7y ago
  As an outsider, I imagine it has something to do with it being a term coined to pander to white leftists so that they can confirm their unique, bizarre self hatred without doing anything meaningful to help anyone. Don't know if I'd call it "racist", but I can see why some people find it tiresome and obnoxious.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  It's taking the identify of Hispanic culture, and redefining it to fit into the political ideals of the liberal American culture. Essentially, it's usurping the identity of minorities groups. If you don't like using Latino, there's already a gender-neutral English word works just fine: Latin. Alternatively, Hispanic works just fine too.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    'Latin' in America has a subtly different meaning, in that it includes Italians, the French, etc. It's a distinct concept from 'Latin American' which by convention refers to people from Latin America only and excludes other Latin people, particularly those from Europe. One might logically think that an Italian immigrant who came in through Ellis Island would be a 'Latin American', but by convention he isn't because he didn't come from a Latin American country. 'Latin' is more inclusive than 'Latin American' but by the numbers both are more inclusive than 'Hispanic' which generally excludes Brazilians, and other Latin American speakers of minority languages. Incidentally, the whole "Latin" thing was invented by the French for geopolitical reasons. Recognition of a "latin race" common among the French, Spanish, Italians, and Mexicans, as a means of balancing the scales in what these Frenchmen perceived as their struggle against the Anglo-Saxon and Slavic races.
wil421 7y ago
What should you say if you don’t know the person is Mexican? Hispanic? I’ve had non-<Hispanic/Latino> correct me when I said Mexican but I knew the person was actually Mexican. What gives?
- umanwizard 7y ago
  It’s hard to believe an actual citizen of Mexico would be offended by you referring to their nationality. “Latino” is a term primarily used by people in the US of Latin American ancestry. “Latinx” even more so. I would recommend simply ignoring anyone who gets offended about how a group they’re not even part of refers to itself.
  - jldugger 7y ago
    > It’s hard to believe an actual citizen of Mexico would be offended by you referring to their nationality. Perhaps 'actually Mexican' in this context means Mexican ancestry. For communities struggling to be accepted as American, this is a legitimate issue.
    - umanwizard 7y ago
      Yes -- and what ethnic terminology such a person would prefer to use is a complicated and delicate issue, and I think you should call them whatever they want to be called (within reason). But I certainly wouldn't suggest listening to the opinions of random Anglos who aren't affected by the issue at all claiming that "calling someone Mexican is offensive"
- DrJokepu 7y ago
  Just don’t say anything. If you don’t know it, don’t assume.
  - whenchamenia 7y ago
    Thats an impossible way to live and get things done. Better to express yourself earnastly, and accept critisim. There is always an opprotunity to learn.
CondensedBrain 7y ago
It's mainly used by nonbinary (enby) people of Latin descent in the US who feel like both Latino and Latina are a poor fit. These threads always have the same look as the ones where people complained about singular they. Latinx doesn't have centuries of use the way singular they does, but it doesn't really matter. It costs you nothing to respect another person's self-identification. Whether people should use it as a group term beyond enby Latin American descendants is another matter.
- rosterface 7y ago
  I agree. I’m talking about applying the term to people who don’t identify as non-binary. They are the people I know (myself included) who don’t like the term. I could see how it would be much more acceptable to non-binary people if they came up with the term to describe themselves.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - tylerhou 7y ago
    I think it is more commonly used among younger people. For example, here is the 50th anniversary celebration for the Afro-Latinx Society at my high school: https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&gid=2&pgid=1920&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1066 https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&g... But I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've edited my comment to say Latino instead.
    - oh_sigh 7y ago
      Why isn't it afrx-latinx?
      - tylerhou 7y ago
        Not sure if this is serious, but if it is, I assume it's because the -o suffix has a masculine connotation in Spanish but not Latin/English (where Afro comes from).
pesmhey 7y ago
Is there a particular historical reason why it isn’t just ‘Latin’?
- umanwizard 7y ago
  “Latin” in English usually includes Latin Europe as well as Latin America. “Latino” refers specifically to the latter.
dragonwriter 7y ago
“Latinx” (except in the narrow use referring to enby persons of the referenced ethnicity, where it is perhaps appropriate) ignores the reason why “Latino” and “Latina”, with the former used when the referrents are of mixed genders, were preferred over Hispanic (the already gender-neutral term English already had.)

mandelbrotwurst 7y ago

why is it considered racist? I can think of some arguments against the term but am having a hard time figuring that one out. Maybe because they perceive it as having been coined by people from outside their group and/or changing the topic to focus on gender > racial justice?

rosterface 7y ago
Yes, that’s why they consider it racist. For the most part it’s a term from white academia. I don’t think anyone really wants to be told that the words they’ve used to describe themselves for generations must be changed, especially by people from another ethnicity all together.
- keerthiko 7y ago
  Thanks for this interesting data point. Would you/they prefer to just be called latino? Is this common sentiment among Mexicans outside of your family? I can see latinx only being preferred by non-gender-conforming individuals to whom it applies, as opposed to when referring to individuals rather than to communities (families, neighborhoods, food, etc).
  - rosterface 7y ago
    I think more specific is always better. I’m of Mexican descent, I prefer to keep that identity. I’ve actually noticed people in the US sometimes struggle to say that as if being “Mexican” is a bad thing; it’s not, don’t be afraid of the term. Latino and Latina are also fine. Hispanic as well although that has a slightly different meaning. I think it’s best to call people by the terms that they use themselves. Foisting a new term on someone to describe their ethnicity doesn’t seem like it would ever be a good idea.
    - sverige 7y ago
      It's funny because I have been ridiculed for calling myself Swedish or Swedish-American instead of white. Somehow some people have even thought that's racist. But it is a strong identity in my family, and, for example, I really don't want to be lumped in with the people of Bavarian descent who made up about half of the town I grew up in. I'm nothing like them culturally. Honestly, "white" isn't an ethnicity and it is borderline insulting to think others can know all about me by my skin color, but I've given up on the idea that my opinion on this will make a difference. It is nice to say it out loud for the first time in years, though.
      - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
        With all due respect, if you were born in the US and grew up speaking English, you have a lot more common with those "Bavarians" than you do with Swedish people in Sweden.
        umanwizard 7y ago
        I was going to leave a similar comment, but decided not to. Anyway, I mostly agree with you -- I never refer to myself as "X-American" where X is some European country, because first of all I don't care much about it, and second I know how ridiculous it sounds to people who were born and raised in country X. On the other hand, I also think the Swedish-American OP has an understandable point. Cultural group identification is a natural, strong human urge, and it can be a bit arbitrary and not objectively correspond to actual observable culture or to ancestry. I wouldn't tell someone living in Serbia who identifies as a Croat that that's nonsense because from an outsider's perspective their culture is 99% indistinguishable from that of a Serb. They have their own reasons for identifying as part of that group, and it's important to them. And similarly I don't really think it's illegitimate for Nth generation white Americans to feel that they are "Swedish" or "Irish" in some way that means something to them. (With the understanding that, yes, they are culturally quite different from someone actually raised in Stockholm or Cork).
        7y ago
- rexarex 7y ago
  The term came from South American feminists I don’t think it’s racist at all...
microcolonel 7y ago
As an outsider, I imagine it has something to do with it being a term coined to pander to white leftists so that they can confirm their unique, bizarre self hatred without doing anything meaningful to help anyone. Don't know if I'd call it "racist", but I can see why some people find it tiresome and obnoxious.
mywittyname 7y ago
It's taking the identify of Hispanic culture, and redefining it to fit into the political ideals of the liberal American culture. Essentially, it's usurping the identity of minorities groups. If you don't like using Latino, there's already a gender-neutral English word works just fine: Latin. Alternatively, Hispanic works just fine too.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  'Latin' in America has a subtly different meaning, in that it includes Italians, the French, etc. It's a distinct concept from 'Latin American' which by convention refers to people from Latin America only and excludes other Latin people, particularly those from Europe. One might logically think that an Italian immigrant who came in through Ellis Island would be a 'Latin American', but by convention he isn't because he didn't come from a Latin American country. 'Latin' is more inclusive than 'Latin American' but by the numbers both are more inclusive than 'Hispanic' which generally excludes Brazilians, and other Latin American speakers of minority languages. Incidentally, the whole "Latin" thing was invented by the French for geopolitical reasons. Recognition of a "latin race" common among the French, Spanish, Italians, and Mexicans, as a means of balancing the scales in what these Frenchmen perceived as their struggle against the Anglo-Saxon and Slavic races.

wil421 7y ago

What should you say if you don’t know the person is Mexican? Hispanic? I’ve had non-<Hispanic/Latino> correct me when I said Mexican but I knew the person was actually Mexican. What gives?

umanwizard 7y ago
It’s hard to believe an actual citizen of Mexico would be offended by you referring to their nationality. “Latino” is a term primarily used by people in the US of Latin American ancestry. “Latinx” even more so. I would recommend simply ignoring anyone who gets offended about how a group they’re not even part of refers to itself.
- jldugger 7y ago
  > It’s hard to believe an actual citizen of Mexico would be offended by you referring to their nationality. Perhaps 'actually Mexican' in this context means Mexican ancestry. For communities struggling to be accepted as American, this is a legitimate issue.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    Yes -- and what ethnic terminology such a person would prefer to use is a complicated and delicate issue, and I think you should call them whatever they want to be called (within reason). But I certainly wouldn't suggest listening to the opinions of random Anglos who aren't affected by the issue at all claiming that "calling someone Mexican is offensive"
DrJokepu 7y ago
Just don’t say anything. If you don’t know it, don’t assume.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  Thats an impossible way to live and get things done. Better to express yourself earnastly, and accept critisim. There is always an opprotunity to learn.

CondensedBrain 7y ago

It's mainly used by nonbinary (enby) people of Latin descent in the US who feel like both Latino and Latina are a poor fit. These threads always have the same look as the ones where people complained about singular they. Latinx doesn't have centuries of use the way singular they does, but it doesn't really matter. It costs you nothing to respect another person's self-identification. Whether people should use it as a group term beyond enby Latin American descendants is another matter.

rosterface 7y ago
I agree. I’m talking about applying the term to people who don’t identify as non-binary. They are the people I know (myself included) who don’t like the term. I could see how it would be much more acceptable to non-binary people if they came up with the term to describe themselves.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tylerhou 7y ago
  I think it is more commonly used among younger people. For example, here is the 50th anniversary celebration for the Afro-Latinx Society at my high school: https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&gid=2&pgid=1920&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1066 https://www.exonians.exeter.edu/s/1682/index.aspx?sid=1682&g... But I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've edited my comment to say Latino instead.
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    Why isn't it afrx-latinx?
    - tylerhou 7y ago
      Not sure if this is serious, but if it is, I assume it's because the -o suffix has a masculine connotation in Spanish but not Latin/English (where Afro comes from).

pesmhey 7y ago

Is there a particular historical reason why it isn’t just ‘Latin’?

umanwizard 7y ago
“Latin” in English usually includes Latin Europe as well as Latin America. “Latino” refers specifically to the latter.

dragonwriter 7y ago

“Latinx” (except in the narrow use referring to enby persons of the referenced ethnicity, where it is perhaps appropriate) ignores the reason why “Latino” and “Latina”, with the former used when the referrents are of mixed genders, were preferred over Hispanic (the already gender-neutral term English already had.)