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Are these people all putting those bolts to hold ropes into the face of the rock? It's getting pretty stupid when fathers are taking their ten year old daughter

Are these people all putting those bolts to hold ropes into the face of the rock? It's getting pretty stupid when fathers are taking their ten year old daughters up the climb. If it's dangerous it should be unlawful, if it's not then what's the point?

warp_factor 7y ago
driving is dangerous so it should be unlawful.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  It is unlawful for 10 year olds to drive.
  - warp_factor 7y ago
    Only because it also could potentially endanger other people. And it is legal to have a 10 year old as a passenger in a car which is what happened in this case on the climb.
    - barking 7y ago
      They restrict driving on mountains to stop erosion. These climbers are driving metal bolts into a beautiful mountain face. That's got to be doing some harm as well as not looking very nice.
      - warp_factor 7y ago
        Bolting is an ethical issue that is discussed at length in the climbing community. The ethics are very strong in Yosemite and therefore there are almost no bolts and all the climbs are done using removable gear. (also called trad gear). I'm also baffled that you compared a couple micro pieces of metal to the disruption that a road provides to the environment. Or even compared to skiing resorts, mountain bike trails etc. In my experience climbers are some of the most ecologically respectful people out there.
        barking 7y ago
        I'm also baffled that you compared a couple micro pieces of metal to ... It's more because it's El Capitan. It's a special place. I get why climbers feel attracted to it but it's more important that it be protected than people, in ever increasing numbers, get the pleasure of climbing it. Look at what's happening at Everest. The feat's been accomplished, no need for everyone else to do it too.
TYPE_FASTER 7y ago
Placing bolts is allowed at Yosemite (see the bolting policy at the bottom of this page): https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbing_regulations.htm https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbing_regulations.... The majority of the routes are not bolted (see the breakdown of climb by type on this page): https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105833388/yosemite-valley https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105833388/yosemite-vall... They climbed The Nose, which seems to be a mix of trad (traditional, no fixed holds) and aid (placing temporary protection, then using gear to climb up to the protection, then placing protection, etc.) climbing - more on the different types of climbing here: http://www.alpineinstitute.com/articles/expert-tips/rock-climbing-terms-styles-and-techniques http://www.alpineinstitute.com/articles/expert-tips/rock-cli.... More on The Nose route: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105924807/the-nose https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105924807/the-nose More detailed look: http://www.supertopo.com/topos/yosemite/thenose.pdf http://www.supertopo.com/topos/yosemite/thenose.pdf You can see in the map of the route that some belay stations are bolted, and in fact the original ascent did use bolts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nose_(El_Capitan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nose_(El_Capitan). > If it's dangerous it should be unlawful The mountains, the oceans, and the deserts seem to be the last refuges of freedom. I hope that doesn't change.
- barking 7y ago
  Thanks for the information and i agree with your last point about freedom. But an adult shouldn't have the freedom to endanger a ten year old's life. On the other hand, if El Capitan has been tamed to the extent that the climbing of it has become safe and routine then I think there's an argument for putting the climbing of it to bed and instead preserving it in as pristine a state as possible.

warp_factor 7y ago

driving is dangerous so it should be unlawful.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
It is unlawful for 10 year olds to drive.
- warp_factor 7y ago
  Only because it also could potentially endanger other people. And it is legal to have a 10 year old as a passenger in a car which is what happened in this case on the climb.
  - barking 7y ago
    They restrict driving on mountains to stop erosion. These climbers are driving metal bolts into a beautiful mountain face. That's got to be doing some harm as well as not looking very nice.
    - warp_factor 7y ago
      Bolting is an ethical issue that is discussed at length in the climbing community. The ethics are very strong in Yosemite and therefore there are almost no bolts and all the climbs are done using removable gear. (also called trad gear). I'm also baffled that you compared a couple micro pieces of metal to the disruption that a road provides to the environment. Or even compared to skiing resorts, mountain bike trails etc. In my experience climbers are some of the most ecologically respectful people out there.
      - barking 7y ago
        I'm also baffled that you compared a couple micro pieces of metal to ... It's more because it's El Capitan. It's a special place. I get why climbers feel attracted to it but it's more important that it be protected than people, in ever increasing numbers, get the pleasure of climbing it. Look at what's happening at Everest. The feat's been accomplished, no need for everyone else to do it too.

TYPE_FASTER 7y ago

Placing bolts is allowed at Yosemite (see the bolting policy at the bottom of this page): https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbing_regulations.htm https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbing_regulations.... The majority of the routes are not bolted (see the breakdown of climb by type on this page): https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105833388/yosemite-valley https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105833388/yosemite-vall... They climbed The Nose, which seems to be a mix of trad (traditional, no fixed holds) and aid (placing temporary protection, then using gear to climb up to the protection, then placing protection, etc.) climbing - more on the different types of climbing here: http://www.alpineinstitute.com/articles/expert-tips/rock-climbing-terms-styles-and-techniques http://www.alpineinstitute.com/articles/expert-tips/rock-cli.... More on The Nose route: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105924807/the-nose https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105924807/the-nose More detailed look: http://www.supertopo.com/topos/yosemite/thenose.pdf http://www.supertopo.com/topos/yosemite/thenose.pdf You can see in the map of the route that some belay stations are bolted, and in fact the original ascent did use bolts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nose_(El_Capitan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nose_(El_Capitan). > If it's dangerous it should be unlawful The mountains, the oceans, and the deserts seem to be the last refuges of freedom. I hope that doesn't change.

barking 7y ago
Thanks for the information and i agree with your last point about freedom. But an adult shouldn't have the freedom to endanger a ten year old's life. On the other hand, if El Capitan has been tamed to the extent that the climbing of it has become safe and routine then I think there's an argument for putting the climbing of it to bed and instead preserving it in as pristine a state as possible.