4 ms·

Or maybe we can actually pay people a wage allowing them to lead some semblance of a decent life? Why does it fall on them, instead of the actual businesses pay

by atonse 7y ago

Or maybe we can actually pay people a wage allowing them to lead some semblance of a decent life? Why does it fall on them, instead of the actual businesses paying them?

sdinsn 7y ago
> some semblance of a decent life Having roommates is fine and not a big deal.
- notacoward 7y ago
  Maybe not for you. For the 37-year-old average retail worker, who might have kids and might not have many other skills, maybe not so much. Not everyone is like you. In particular, many people in the demographic we're talking about might not be like anyone you've ever spent any time with.
  - sdinsn 7y ago
    I'm aware not everyone is like me. And also not everyone is a "37-year-old retail worker". If you want to dismiss my comment, that's fine, but you should delete your own to avoid hypocrisy.
    - notacoward 7y ago
      > I'm aware not everyone is like me. You are now. Didn't seem to be previously. > you should delete your own to avoid hypocrisy. I wasn't the one over-generalizing from personal experience. I didn't say "it's no big deal" as though that would be true for everyone. There's no hypocrisy, so spare us all the whataboutism.
      - sdinsn 7y ago
        I was plenty aware before. I was sharing my personal experiences. Someone who is a 37year old retail worker is free to share theirs as well. It appears like you are a bad actor and will dismiss anything that violates your 'reality'.
        notacoward 7y ago
        So interpreting your over-general statement exactly as written makes someone a bad actor? If you want to share personal experience, identify it as such ("for me") instead of expressing it as a general rule. If you want to provide a counterexample to an overly general statement, use words like "might" (as I did) to indicate that. Don't gaslight readers about what you originally said, and don't attribute evil motives to anyone who points it out. Those Reddit-level tricks will only convince anyone reading the exchange that you're the one arguing in bad faith.
leetcrew 7y ago
I share a house with three other people and I don't have any kids. I quite enjoy my life right now and if I had thinner skin I might take offense from your implication.
- atonse 7y ago
  I'm saying that if people are not able to have a certain standard of living due to their income, why should it be framed as their fault? Obviously I'm not saying someone should be able to live in a 3000 sq. ft. house when I say "certain standard of living." In your case, you probably made the choice of your living arrangement, not a choice your employer made for you. That's different.
imgabe 7y ago
Are you asking why it falls on individual people to sort out their own lives and arrange their accommodations to their own liking? Maybe because we prefer to grant individuals some degree of personal autonomy instead of making them dependent wards of whatever place they happen to work? A business has the job of running itself in a profitable manner. Not babysitting what should be functional adults.
cwkoss 7y ago
> we can actually pay people We should implement a UBI - minimum wage is not an effective method for decreasing poverty long term. Raising the minimum wage decreases demand for labor. A high minimum wage is only currently useful because of the other failures in our social safety net.

by atonse 7y ago

Or maybe we can actually pay people a wage allowing them to lead some semblance of a decent life? Why does it fall on them, instead of the actual businesses paying them?

sdinsn 7y ago

> some semblance of a decent life Having roommates is fine and not a big deal.

notacoward 7y ago
Maybe not for you. For the 37-year-old average retail worker, who might have kids and might not have many other skills, maybe not so much. Not everyone is like you. In particular, many people in the demographic we're talking about might not be like anyone you've ever spent any time with.
- sdinsn 7y ago
  I'm aware not everyone is like me. And also not everyone is a "37-year-old retail worker". If you want to dismiss my comment, that's fine, but you should delete your own to avoid hypocrisy.
  - notacoward 7y ago
    > I'm aware not everyone is like me. You are now. Didn't seem to be previously. > you should delete your own to avoid hypocrisy. I wasn't the one over-generalizing from personal experience. I didn't say "it's no big deal" as though that would be true for everyone. There's no hypocrisy, so spare us all the whataboutism.
    - sdinsn 7y ago
      I was plenty aware before. I was sharing my personal experiences. Someone who is a 37year old retail worker is free to share theirs as well. It appears like you are a bad actor and will dismiss anything that violates your 'reality'.
      - notacoward 7y ago
        So interpreting your over-general statement exactly as written makes someone a bad actor? If you want to share personal experience, identify it as such ("for me") instead of expressing it as a general rule. If you want to provide a counterexample to an overly general statement, use words like "might" (as I did) to indicate that. Don't gaslight readers about what you originally said, and don't attribute evil motives to anyone who points it out. Those Reddit-level tricks will only convince anyone reading the exchange that you're the one arguing in bad faith.

leetcrew 7y ago

I share a house with three other people and I don't have any kids. I quite enjoy my life right now and if I had thinner skin I might take offense from your implication.

atonse 7y ago
I'm saying that if people are not able to have a certain standard of living due to their income, why should it be framed as their fault? Obviously I'm not saying someone should be able to live in a 3000 sq. ft. house when I say "certain standard of living." In your case, you probably made the choice of your living arrangement, not a choice your employer made for you. That's different.

imgabe 7y ago

Are you asking why it falls on individual people to sort out their own lives and arrange their accommodations to their own liking? Maybe because we prefer to grant individuals some degree of personal autonomy instead of making them dependent wards of whatever place they happen to work? A business has the job of running itself in a profitable manner. Not babysitting what should be functional adults.

cwkoss 7y ago

> we can actually pay people We should implement a UBI - minimum wage is not an effective method for decreasing poverty long term. Raising the minimum wage decreases demand for labor. A high minimum wage is only currently useful because of the other failures in our social safety net.