3 ms·

Are we worried that raising the minimum wage will cause companies to do a thing they are already doing?

jasonjei 7y ago
It will accelerate automation if the math makes sense. McDoanld’s are going cashierless, and grocery stores will increase self-service checkout (requiring only sentries and stockers at the store). Retailers will shut down brick and mortar stores (30% of malls will shut down in the next 5 years). I’m all for automation, but the greater question is transitioning people gracefully.
- fwip 7y ago
  The cost of technology falls faster than wages rise.
- moorhosj 7y ago
  Again, these things are already happening. Hurting today's minimum wage workers in order to save these industries from something they are already doing seems like a fool's errand. The minimum wage hasn't changed in a decade and the math is already making sense. What's the point in waiting longer?
mac01021 7y ago
I assume you mean automating away any job that they can figure out how to automate? Raising the minimum wage might accelerate that somewhat, but I don't think that is the main concern. Let's consider only jobs that there will be no good way to automate for the foreseeable future. The existing minimum wage already eliminates some jobs that cannot be automated but just are simply not worth $7 per hour to the would-be employer. Not many people would be interested in holding such jobs, but probably a few who kind of like that sort of work and only need a very small income. The number of such people could be expected to increase in the presence of a UBI scheme. There may be a lot more jobs that currently pay $12 per hour, but that the employers will simply forgo rather than pay $15. (Imagine an old man who pays a worker $12 per hour to mow because it makes him happy to have a nice lawn, but whose budget has no room for a $3 raise. If the minimum wage rises to $15, he has to pay nobody, let his lawn go to hell, and live a slightly-less-satisfactory life. Meanwhile, the worker has to find a new gig, if he can.)
- moorhosj 7y ago
  A nitpick, but the old-man paying someone to mow his lawn is not subject to Fair Labor Standards Act [1]. Specifically: "The FLSA only applies if you pay your employee more than $1,900 in a single year or works more than eight hours a week." On your broader point, I'm not sure that those are viable "jobs" if they can't be done for ever $7.25/hr. What are the jobs going undone today because they are only worth $7.24/hr? Why isn't anyone wringing their hands over that injustice? The real question is, what would the impact be. Isn't it possible that raising the minimum wage lifts more people out of poverty than it pushes into poverty through joblessness? If yes, it is likely worth trying. [1] https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2015/06/hire-a-kid-to-babysit-or-mow-lawn-pay-minimum-wage.html https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2015/06/hire-a-kid-to... edit: had the minimum wage wrong.
  - mac01021 7y ago
    > Isn't it possible that raising the minimum wage lifts more people out of poverty than it pushes into poverty through joblessness? Yes. It's possible. Probable even. But not certain.

It will accelerate automation if the math makes sense. McDoanld’s are going cashierless, and grocery stores will increase self-service checkout (requiring only sentries and stockers at the store). Retailers will shut down brick and mortar stores (30% of malls will shut down in the next 5 years). I’m all for automation, but the greater question is transitioning people gracefully.

fwip 7y ago
The cost of technology falls faster than wages rise.
moorhosj 7y ago
Again, these things are already happening. Hurting today's minimum wage workers in order to save these industries from something they are already doing seems like a fool's errand. The minimum wage hasn't changed in a decade and the math is already making sense. What's the point in waiting longer?

mac01021 7y ago

I assume you mean automating away any job that they can figure out how to automate? Raising the minimum wage might accelerate that somewhat, but I don't think that is the main concern. Let's consider only jobs that there will be no good way to automate for the foreseeable future. The existing minimum wage already eliminates some jobs that cannot be automated but just are simply not worth $7 per hour to the would-be employer. Not many people would be interested in holding such jobs, but probably a few who kind of like that sort of work and only need a very small income. The number of such people could be expected to increase in the presence of a UBI scheme. There may be a lot more jobs that currently pay $12 per hour, but that the employers will simply forgo rather than pay $15. (Imagine an old man who pays a worker $12 per hour to mow because it makes him happy to have a nice lawn, but whose budget has no room for a $3 raise. If the minimum wage rises to $15, he has to pay nobody, let his lawn go to hell, and live a slightly-less-satisfactory life. Meanwhile, the worker has to find a new gig, if he can.)

moorhosj 7y ago
A nitpick, but the old-man paying someone to mow his lawn is not subject to Fair Labor Standards Act [1]. Specifically: "The FLSA only applies if you pay your employee more than $1,900 in a single year or works more than eight hours a week." On your broader point, I'm not sure that those are viable "jobs" if they can't be done for ever $7.25/hr. What are the jobs going undone today because they are only worth $7.24/hr? Why isn't anyone wringing their hands over that injustice? The real question is, what would the impact be. Isn't it possible that raising the minimum wage lifts more people out of poverty than it pushes into poverty through joblessness? If yes, it is likely worth trying. [1] https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2015/06/hire-a-kid-to-babysit-or-mow-lawn-pay-minimum-wage.html https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2015/06/hire-a-kid-to... edit: had the minimum wage wrong.
- mac01021 7y ago
  > Isn't it possible that raising the minimum wage lifts more people out of poverty than it pushes into poverty through joblessness? Yes. It's possible. Probable even. But not certain.