6 ms·

> Minimum wage earners can often afford two bedroom homes priced at the lower end. [citation needed] Looking around the bay they appear to simply become homel

> Minimum wage earners can often afford two bedroom homes priced at the lower end. [citation needed] Looking around the bay they appear to simply become homeless, especially if there's any interruption in work, and if they're lucky they're able to move away before this happens.

leereeves 7y ago
Obviously not in the Bay Area. People making six figures can't afford homes in the Bay Area. But homes are cheaper almost everywhere else in the US.
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  ...and that's the economy working, where you can be run out of the city because a rich person wants your house?
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Yes? Supply and demand is basically the fundamental law of economics.
    - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
      No, it’s not. It’s the foundation of market economies, which are not the only way to distribute goods and services. There are many alternatives to this.
      - leereeves 7y ago
        Like Venezuela, Cuba, and the Soviet Union? Those alternatives aren't better.
        SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        Look at singapore for an alternative that isn’t associated with anti-socialized scare tactics. Soviets had a lot of issues but lack of housing wasn’t one of them. Same for cuba, although the sanctions have crippled the economy to make quality housing difficult. I can’t speak for venezuela housing as i have not researched it, and it seems weird to clump a country with a mostly private economy in with self-proclaimed communist countries.
        TylerE 7y ago
        A somewhat ironic example given the subject at hand https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2019/1/177713/singapore-housing-prices-seriously-unaffordable-survey https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/201... "House prices in Singapore are considered “seriously unaffordable”, with a median multiple of 4.6, which means that the median house price is 4.6 times the city-state’s median household income, according to an annual survey."
        SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        I was referring to the public housing, not the market housing. If you’re a citizen it’s not terribly difficult to get your own unit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore This is how you preserve existing communities--it should be harder to move into a city than to stay there.
        RhysU 7y ago
        Why should existing folks be given preferential access to urban job markets? No one born outside a city chose to be born there.
        SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        Because without community, what value do job markets have? Life is more than working until you die. Only the rich have the luxury of something more the way cities are headed. This is worth fighting for. If you don’t start with values, you have nothing. Anyway it’s somewhat of a moot point because you can preserve communities and still build—just not with market-driven rents and landlord-owned cities. And not everyone can have what they want and live where they want. It’s worth it.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    No, that's NIMBYist government regulation preventing the economy from working by building high density housing in a city that needs it.
    - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
      YIMBY pro-developer stances like Weiner's SB-50 aren’t going to help working class families and individuals either. I am very pro-development but we need high allocations of affordable and social housing to make the development work for the existing community.
bluGill 7y ago
Location location location. Try looking around some city not well known for insane housing prices.
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  Try moving cities without a home or a job, looking to survive on the street.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    The hard part about moving is leaving family, friends, and stuff behind. Once you are willing to do that a bus ticket across the US is cheap.
    - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
      > The hard part about moving is leaving family, friends, and stuff behind Tell that to the homeless, I dare you. It's certainly the attitude of a sheltered existence.
      - bluGill 7y ago
        The homeless have problems mostly unrelated to minimum wage.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        This claim is based on... what? Your wandering around the tenderloin and judging people? Try visiting shelters, especially in the south bay. There are plenty of families without the problems you mentioned. This attitude is intentional neglect of reality, and its prevalence is literally killing people.
        7y ago
magashna 7y ago
the bay is not lower end is it
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  Every market has a working class. You can’t just pretend supply and demand will provide labor with perfect elasticity. Part of why development is so difficult is the labor pool in the bay area is massively outstripped by demand for labor driving up costs and slowing down development.

leereeves 7y ago

Obviously not in the Bay Area. People making six figures can't afford homes in the Bay Area. But homes are cheaper almost everywhere else in the US.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago
...and that's the economy working, where you can be run out of the city because a rich person wants your house?
- TylerE 7y ago
  Yes? Supply and demand is basically the fundamental law of economics.
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
    No, it’s not. It’s the foundation of market economies, which are not the only way to distribute goods and services. There are many alternatives to this.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      Like Venezuela, Cuba, and the Soviet Union? Those alternatives aren't better.
      - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        Look at singapore for an alternative that isn’t associated with anti-socialized scare tactics. Soviets had a lot of issues but lack of housing wasn’t one of them. Same for cuba, although the sanctions have crippled the economy to make quality housing difficult. I can’t speak for venezuela housing as i have not researched it, and it seems weird to clump a country with a mostly private economy in with self-proclaimed communist countries.
        TylerE 7y ago
        A somewhat ironic example given the subject at hand https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2019/1/177713/singapore-housing-prices-seriously-unaffordable-survey https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/201... "House prices in Singapore are considered “seriously unaffordable”, with a median multiple of 4.6, which means that the median house price is 4.6 times the city-state’s median household income, according to an annual survey."
        SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        I was referring to the public housing, not the market housing. If you’re a citizen it’s not terribly difficult to get your own unit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore This is how you preserve existing communities--it should be harder to move into a city than to stay there.
        RhysU 7y ago
        Why should existing folks be given preferential access to urban job markets? No one born outside a city chose to be born there.
        SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        Because without community, what value do job markets have? Life is more than working until you die. Only the rich have the luxury of something more the way cities are headed. This is worth fighting for. If you don’t start with values, you have nothing. Anyway it’s somewhat of a moot point because you can preserve communities and still build—just not with market-driven rents and landlord-owned cities. And not everyone can have what they want and live where they want. It’s worth it.
- leereeves 7y ago
  No, that's NIMBYist government regulation preventing the economy from working by building high density housing in a city that needs it.
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
    YIMBY pro-developer stances like Weiner's SB-50 aren’t going to help working class families and individuals either. I am very pro-development but we need high allocations of affordable and social housing to make the development work for the existing community.

bluGill 7y ago

Location location location. Try looking around some city not well known for insane housing prices.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago
Try moving cities without a home or a job, looking to survive on the street.
- bluGill 7y ago
  The hard part about moving is leaving family, friends, and stuff behind. Once you are willing to do that a bus ticket across the US is cheap.
  - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
    > The hard part about moving is leaving family, friends, and stuff behind Tell that to the homeless, I dare you. It's certainly the attitude of a sheltered existence.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      The homeless have problems mostly unrelated to minimum wage.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - SomeOldThrow 7y ago
        This claim is based on... what? Your wandering around the tenderloin and judging people? Try visiting shelters, especially in the south bay. There are plenty of families without the problems you mentioned. This attitude is intentional neglect of reality, and its prevalence is literally killing people.
        7y ago

magashna 7y ago

the bay is not lower end is it

SomeOldThrow 7y ago
Every market has a working class. You can’t just pretend supply and demand will provide labor with perfect elasticity. Part of why development is so difficult is the labor pool in the bay area is massively outstripped by demand for labor driving up costs and slowing down development.