8 ms·

Why not? Why shouldn't it? Why is this the proper state of things?

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Because it in no way makes sense for someone to hire a first time employee who still lives with their parents for a zero skill job at the rate of "enough to afford a two-bedroom house".
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  Isn't there a huge conceit that that's who earns minimum wage? Looking around my local wal-mart, it would appear many people first entered the job market at weird times in their lives.
  - sct202 7y ago
    Walmart's starting pay is $11 now, so they aren't even at minimum wage anymore.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    Walmart actually pays considerably more than minimum wage, so I'm not sure what point you are making here.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      I see now that changed recently, though I didn't see any demographics shifts in who are being employed. And you know exactly the point I was trying to make.
- mlevental 7y ago
  > a first time employee who still lives with their parents what makes you think this is the typical minimum wage earner?
  - maxlybbert 7y ago
    The minimum wage is “the least you can pay anyone for any reason.” If you set it too high, then first time workers who still live with their parents won’t be able to get jobs. At all.
    - mlevental 7y ago
      that has almost nothing to do with what i asked
      - maxlybbert 7y ago
        You asked “what makes you think this is the typical minimum wage earner?” I answered “if you don’t take that case into account when setting minimum wage, then that worker won’t be able to get a job.” Minimum wage is the least you can pay anyone for any reason. It is, by definition, an edge case.
        mlevental 7y ago
        again - that has almost nothing to do with what i asked. bls: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home.pdf https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home.... > Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up just under half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. that means just over 50% of minimum wage earners are older than 25 (well outside the typical age where you're still living with your parents or just entering the workforce) >It is, by definition, an edge case. it is de-facto not an edge case.
        maxlybbert 7y ago
        While I’m sure most people over 25 still making minimum wage would prefer a pay raise, and for the sake of argument, I’ll even accept that the world would be a better place if they got that pay raise, if you raise the minimum wage enough that it’s no longer profitable to hire inexperienced workers, then those potential workers will be locked out of the market. I acknowledge that there’s a serious problem if millions of experienced workers are unable to get more than minimum wage, but I would prefer we fix that by helping those workers become more valuable, not by putting a “you must be this tall to ride” sign on entry level jobs.
NotAnEconomist 7y ago
Because "minimum wage" is the floor of the economic spectrum -- and basic economics dictates that if some people have more money, they'll drive their desires purchases above the price someone with less can afford. However, you need to pay more for some jobs, because they're harder or require more skill. Further, empirically, stratified-by-economics societies are more stable than forced-equal-by-government societies.
pingpongchef 7y ago
Minimum wage is an artificial value which is propped up by law, and can change without respect to an individual's situation. It would be better to aim for the highest wage an individual can get in exchange for labor.

Because it in no way makes sense for someone to hire a first time employee who still lives with their parents for a zero skill job at the rate of "enough to afford a two-bedroom house".

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
Isn't there a huge conceit that that's who earns minimum wage? Looking around my local wal-mart, it would appear many people first entered the job market at weird times in their lives.
- sct202 7y ago
  Walmart's starting pay is $11 now, so they aren't even at minimum wage anymore.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  Walmart actually pays considerably more than minimum wage, so I'm not sure what point you are making here.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    I see now that changed recently, though I didn't see any demographics shifts in who are being employed. And you know exactly the point I was trying to make.
mlevental 7y ago
> a first time employee who still lives with their parents what makes you think this is the typical minimum wage earner?
- maxlybbert 7y ago
  The minimum wage is “the least you can pay anyone for any reason.” If you set it too high, then first time workers who still live with their parents won’t be able to get jobs. At all.
  - mlevental 7y ago
    that has almost nothing to do with what i asked
    - maxlybbert 7y ago
      You asked “what makes you think this is the typical minimum wage earner?” I answered “if you don’t take that case into account when setting minimum wage, then that worker won’t be able to get a job.” Minimum wage is the least you can pay anyone for any reason. It is, by definition, an edge case.
      - mlevental 7y ago
        again - that has almost nothing to do with what i asked. bls: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home.pdf https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home.... > Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up just under half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. that means just over 50% of minimum wage earners are older than 25 (well outside the typical age where you're still living with your parents or just entering the workforce) >It is, by definition, an edge case. it is de-facto not an edge case.
        maxlybbert 7y ago
        While I’m sure most people over 25 still making minimum wage would prefer a pay raise, and for the sake of argument, I’ll even accept that the world would be a better place if they got that pay raise, if you raise the minimum wage enough that it’s no longer profitable to hire inexperienced workers, then those potential workers will be locked out of the market. I acknowledge that there’s a serious problem if millions of experienced workers are unable to get more than minimum wage, but I would prefer we fix that by helping those workers become more valuable, not by putting a “you must be this tall to ride” sign on entry level jobs.

NotAnEconomist 7y ago

Because "minimum wage" is the floor of the economic spectrum -- and basic economics dictates that if some people have more money, they'll drive their desires purchases above the price someone with less can afford. However, you need to pay more for some jobs, because they're harder or require more skill. Further, empirically, stratified-by-economics societies are more stable than forced-equal-by-government societies.

pingpongchef 7y ago

Minimum wage is an artificial value which is propped up by law, and can change without respect to an individual's situation. It would be better to aim for the highest wage an individual can get in exchange for labor.