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How do tariffs on Chinese goods help shore up US dominance there? Same way that the decision of the "Party Central Committee" of The People's Republic of China

How do tariffs on Chinese goods help shore up US dominance there? Same way that the decision of the "Party Central Committee" of The People's Republic of China to block Google helped Baidu. China started this. 10 years later we're just now joining the fight.

enitihas 7y ago
Did China ever block Google? Or did google refuse to serve the Chinese market themselves due to the requirement to censor search results. While censorship is bad, it is a legal requirement in China. Even the US wouldn't allow companies violating US sanctions on Iran to do business in the US. Case in point, Bing still works in China and complies with the demands of the Chinese Government.
- robrenaud 7y ago
  There were times when users visiting google were directed to baidu in mainland china via DNS. If that's not tipping the scale, I don't know what is. https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2008/04/golden-shield-project/ https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2008/04/golden-shield-proj...
  - jayd16 7y ago
    but that has nothing to do with tariffs and whether tariffs are good policy...
    - drocer88 7y ago
      Administrative blockage is a form of protectionism. You don't pay a tariff but you are prevented from accessing the market. Same result.
rchaud 7y ago
> 10 years later we're just now joining the fight. Where did you get that timeframe from? I clearly remember the 2002 steel tariffs under the George W Bush administration [0]. The US' own research into that estimated the impact as: "ranged between a gain of $65.6 million (0.0006% of GDP) to a loss of $110.0 million (0.0011% of GDP), "with a central estimate of a welfare loss of $41.6 million." You're making it sound like the US has been this free-trade vanguard while the rest of the world ran rougshod over its principled nature. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff#cite_note-:2-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tarif...
- drocer88 7y ago
  0.0006% of GDP So. pretty trivial stuff. You're making it sound like the US has been this free-trade vanguard check : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_ra... U.S. is 161 out of 180 (180=lowest). So we are the leader of the free trade vanguard as far as large countries go. I apologize "for making it sound like". That was not my intention. Perhaps you were eager to read that into it.
  - rchaud 7y ago
    Thanks for adding a link. The US' average tariff rate is indeed low. But tariffs are only one instrument of trade policy. The US farming sector is protected against foreign competition due to an absolute advantage in food production that exists because of the $20bn that goes into subsidy and assistance programs each year [0]. The reason every round of WTO trade talks takes years to complete is because of the dispute between rich world farmers and poor-world farmers. It's not just the US, but also the EU and their Common Agricultural Policy that leads to overproduction, waste and export of surpluses to poor countries at below market prices. [0]https://outline.com/VB9gCX https://outline.com/VB9gCX (link to a 2015 Economist article)
jayd16 7y ago
How is it the same? There's no ramp up time, no foundries to build and the demand is instantaneous. That doesn't prove tariffs are good policy in the slightest.

enitihas 7y ago

Did China ever block Google? Or did google refuse to serve the Chinese market themselves due to the requirement to censor search results. While censorship is bad, it is a legal requirement in China. Even the US wouldn't allow companies violating US sanctions on Iran to do business in the US. Case in point, Bing still works in China and complies with the demands of the Chinese Government.

robrenaud 7y ago
There were times when users visiting google were directed to baidu in mainland china via DNS. If that's not tipping the scale, I don't know what is. https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2008/04/golden-shield-project/ https://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2008/04/golden-shield-proj...
- jayd16 7y ago
  but that has nothing to do with tariffs and whether tariffs are good policy...
  - drocer88 7y ago
    Administrative blockage is a form of protectionism. You don't pay a tariff but you are prevented from accessing the market. Same result.

rchaud 7y ago

> 10 years later we're just now joining the fight. Where did you get that timeframe from? I clearly remember the 2002 steel tariffs under the George W Bush administration [0]. The US' own research into that estimated the impact as: "ranged between a gain of $65.6 million (0.0006% of GDP) to a loss of $110.0 million (0.0011% of GDP), "with a central estimate of a welfare loss of $41.6 million." You're making it sound like the US has been this free-trade vanguard while the rest of the world ran rougshod over its principled nature. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff#cite_note-:2-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tarif...

drocer88 7y ago
0.0006% of GDP So. pretty trivial stuff. You're making it sound like the US has been this free-trade vanguard check : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tariff_ra... U.S. is 161 out of 180 (180=lowest). So we are the leader of the free trade vanguard as far as large countries go. I apologize "for making it sound like". That was not my intention. Perhaps you were eager to read that into it.
- rchaud 7y ago
  Thanks for adding a link. The US' average tariff rate is indeed low. But tariffs are only one instrument of trade policy. The US farming sector is protected against foreign competition due to an absolute advantage in food production that exists because of the $20bn that goes into subsidy and assistance programs each year [0]. The reason every round of WTO trade talks takes years to complete is because of the dispute between rich world farmers and poor-world farmers. It's not just the US, but also the EU and their Common Agricultural Policy that leads to overproduction, waste and export of surpluses to poor countries at below market prices. [0]https://outline.com/VB9gCX https://outline.com/VB9gCX (link to a 2015 Economist article)

jayd16 7y ago

How is it the same? There's no ramp up time, no foundries to build and the demand is instantaneous. That doesn't prove tariffs are good policy in the slightest.