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There are several problems with this (other than that giving them the measles vaccine is a safer version of the same thing). First problem is that the anti-vax

by toss1 7y ago

There are several problems with this (other than that giving them the measles vaccine is a safer version of the same thing). First problem is that the anti-vaxxers are both ignorant of history and unable to reason about risk. They ignore the centuries of disease, the then-common human experience of bearing a dozen kids and having only a few live to adulthood, and they vastly distort the risks and ignore the rewards of vaccines. Worse yet, they are entitled freeloaders, freeloading on the herd immunity that is created and maintained by the smart people. This specifically endangers those who need to rely upon the herd immunity, the not insignificant part of the population who cannot be vaccinated due to other medical conditions. The anti-vaxxers are literally threatening the lives of these people. So, if we wanted to do that, the anti-vaxxers need to be shunned, hard. This means zero access to any public space. Remember, many of these diseases are so highly contagious that an infection can occur merely by walking through the same space hours after an infected person has been through. So, the anti-vaxxers exclusion list would start with: schools, govt buildings, malls, grocery stores, and all forms of public transport including buses, trains, planes, and even taxi/Uber/Lyft. Even that list is likely inadequate if we lose herd immunity, as is now happening. The implications to public health & the costs to society are staggering if we lose herd immunity. This must be a simple requirement to participate in an advanced society. If you don't want to do it, go live on some island somewhere.

creaghpatr 7y ago
Schools make sense and most schools do this (possibly with exemptions), but how would people screen each others' vaccination status in a general public place?
- toss1 7y ago
  Exactly the point! This kind of screening is largely impractical, short of tattooing anti-vaxxers' foreheads with a large red strikethru "V". So, it needs to be simply a requirement. If you don't have either the vaccinations or a bona-fide medical excuse, you are denied all govt services & benefits until you do. No school, driver's license, passport, benefits, etc. The fact that this is still in a debate at all is an enormous normalcy bias error. Some of the origins are due to stupidity, but much of the growth of the "controversy" is the result of a deliberate and sustained attack on the west by Russia. Here's just two articles, scientific & news sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/in-the-united-states-russian-trolls-are-peddling-measles-disinformation-on-twitter/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/in-the-united-states-ru... Damn cheap way to undermine your enemy -- directly attack your target's public health for the cost of a few bots & trolls.
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    > So, it needs to be simply a requirement. If you don't have either the vaccinations or a bona-fide medical excuse, you are denied all govt services & benefits until you do. No school, driver's license, passport, benefits, etc. And no taxes? Where do I sign up.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - toss1 7y ago
      No. If anything, it should be double taxes, since the anti-vaxxers definitely create much higher costs for society in general and for the health system & govt in particular. So, yes, a big surcharge would be a good idea... maybe they could use part of it to pay for the red tattoos ;-)
      - conanbatt 7y ago
        You mean collect taxes and give no benefits? Is that..slavery?
        zentiggr 7y ago
        That is a societal level ticket for "disturbing the peace"
        toss1 7y ago
        No, they still get all the collective benefits of the govt -- common defense by the most powerful armed forces ever, foreign & monetary policy, road & economic system, use of the world' primary reserve currency, and many other benefits. I'd even suggest that we give them a passport for free if they stayed away until they decided to get vaccinated.

by toss1 7y ago

creaghpatr 7y ago

Schools make sense and most schools do this (possibly with exemptions), but how would people screen each others' vaccination status in a general public place?

toss1 7y ago
Exactly the point! This kind of screening is largely impractical, short of tattooing anti-vaxxers' foreheads with a large red strikethru "V". So, it needs to be simply a requirement. If you don't have either the vaccinations or a bona-fide medical excuse, you are denied all govt services & benefits until you do. No school, driver's license, passport, benefits, etc. The fact that this is still in a debate at all is an enormous normalcy bias error. Some of the origins are due to stupidity, but much of the growth of the "controversy" is the result of a deliberate and sustained attack on the west by Russia. Here's just two articles, scientific & news sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6137759/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/in-the-united-states-russian-trolls-are-peddling-measles-disinformation-on-twitter/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/in-the-united-states-ru... Damn cheap way to undermine your enemy -- directly attack your target's public health for the cost of a few bots & trolls.
- conanbatt 7y ago
  > So, it needs to be simply a requirement. If you don't have either the vaccinations or a bona-fide medical excuse, you are denied all govt services & benefits until you do. No school, driver's license, passport, benefits, etc. And no taxes? Where do I sign up.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - toss1 7y ago
    No. If anything, it should be double taxes, since the anti-vaxxers definitely create much higher costs for society in general and for the health system & govt in particular. So, yes, a big surcharge would be a good idea... maybe they could use part of it to pay for the red tattoos ;-)
    - conanbatt 7y ago
      You mean collect taxes and give no benefits? Is that..slavery?
      - zentiggr 7y ago
        That is a societal level ticket for "disturbing the peace"
      - toss1 7y ago
        No, they still get all the collective benefits of the govt -- common defense by the most powerful armed forces ever, foreign & monetary policy, road & economic system, use of the world' primary reserve currency, and many other benefits. I'd even suggest that we give them a passport for free if they stayed away until they decided to get vaccinated.