7 ms·

I empathize. My last job was with a university that got tagged with a lawsuit threat around the time I started. Accessibility stories eventually dominated our b

I empathize. My last job was with a university that got tagged with a lawsuit threat around the time I started. Accessibility stories eventually dominated our backlog. I appreciated being able to improve accessibility. But the lack of consistent standards and the legal department's lazy and inflexible response to the issue were demoralizing. One of the first things I did in my next position was to bring on a Site Accessibility Engineer (I think I made that term up) to get out in front of issues like this. She was a graduate of a developer bootcamp with past experience assisting people with real-world accessibility issues. She's been invaluable.

jerf 7y ago
"She was a graduate of a developer bootcamp with past experience assisting people with real-world accessibility issues." That's one of the best "boot camp" use cases I've ever heard. An accessibility engineer like that doesn't necessarily need to be able to actually code up a backend with a database, etc, but is going to be greatly handicapped if they literally know nothing about the web and can't even show off a prototyped-up page with the new markup they are proposing. They don't need a full "computer science" education, a boot camp is a perfect bootstrap. (I'd still say there's things yet to learn, but when isn't that true?)
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Sure, but where do they get their second tech job? Site accessibility engineer is not a common job title/position that I know of. Without some of those skills you mention, if not the corresponding formal education, that seems like this person is set up to fail soon, unless companies really start taking accessibility seriously in the next few years.
  - cbsks 7y ago
    From reading the other comments in this thread, it seems that companies are starting to take accessibility seriously, and an experienced site accessibility engineer will not have any issues getting another job.
  - belenos46 7y ago
    I dunno; if they're like most developers I know, they'll end up picking up a hodgepodge of skills that they missed in the bootcamp, which will let them plump out their resume. If they can't figure out how to write their resume after they've had the experience, I don't feel too bad for them.
  - vanadium 7y ago
    Accessibility consulting pays bonkers money these days due to the demand; even the a11y places like Deque and Usablenet are being asked for on-site a11y practitioners and they can’t find enough of them to refer companies to.
  - the8472 7y ago
    Shouldn't those skills generalize to UX/QA?
  - Machado117 7y ago
    In the worst case the same place other bootcamp graduates get their jobs.
  - jerf 7y ago
    "a boot camp is a perfect bootstrap. (I'd still say there's things yet to learn, but when isn't that true?)"
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  > "An accessibility engineer... is going to be greatly handicapped if...." Here comes the lawsuit-targeting algorithm.
ravenstine 7y ago
Hiring specialists should be more of a thing, rather than expecting engineers to be competent at every nuance of building web applications.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Complying with laws that have been around about as long as the web isn't some nuance.
  - LanceH 7y ago
    There is no law requiring anything of the sort by an individual developer.
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
      This is technically correct, but developers often code websites and applications facing the public, at which point you do come under the auspices of US case law (since websites are not explicitly covered by ADA), and UK legislation, to start with a few jurisdictions.
      - LanceH 7y ago
        Does every developer face the law? Or just the companies putting material out there? This really isn't a matter for developers to take on themselves. It is a matter of product development and feature selection. So many people on here talking like they just "just do it right" and it's no more difficult to make the site accessible than it is to make the site at all. It is something which needs to planned an budgeted for. It can get expensive. Especially when the development of the site is speculative and you don't know beforehand what it is going to look like in. Iterating over works in progress and maintaining accessibility along the way can be a real pain.
        ravenstine 7y ago
        If it was as easy as everyone says, then most websites wouldn't be downright crap when it comes to accessibility. Most engineers are either too incompetent to implement it or it's too hard, or both. It's probably a mix of both. Either way, just wishing that people just do a better job just isn't going to happen. Paying people to do one job really well is probably a better way forward. Hell, I can take the argument against this and apply it to things like QA. Why exactly can't engineers just do what QA would do themselves? Why not make all engineers devops? After all, shouldn't they understand the entire system from end to end? The answer is they can't, because the more skills you expect an individual to have, the more likely they're going to suck at everything they do.
vanadium 7y ago
You might want to put her on a certification track (of which there are legit and respected certs out there now). Gomez v GNC highlighted the need for someone that could be pointed to as an actual expert on Accessibility on staff. IAAP Certification Tracks: https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/certification https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/certification Gomez v. GNC: https://www.levelaccess.com/federal-court-decision-gomez-v-gnc-highlights-importance-choosing-experienced-accessibility-expert/ https://www.levelaccess.com/federal-court-decision-gomez-v-g...

jerf 7y ago

"She was a graduate of a developer bootcamp with past experience assisting people with real-world accessibility issues." That's one of the best "boot camp" use cases I've ever heard. An accessibility engineer like that doesn't necessarily need to be able to actually code up a backend with a database, etc, but is going to be greatly handicapped if they literally know nothing about the web and can't even show off a prototyped-up page with the new markup they are proposing. They don't need a full "computer science" education, a boot camp is a perfect bootstrap. (I'd still say there's things yet to learn, but when isn't that true?)

pmiller2 7y ago
Sure, but where do they get their second tech job? Site accessibility engineer is not a common job title/position that I know of. Without some of those skills you mention, if not the corresponding formal education, that seems like this person is set up to fail soon, unless companies really start taking accessibility seriously in the next few years.
- cbsks 7y ago
  From reading the other comments in this thread, it seems that companies are starting to take accessibility seriously, and an experienced site accessibility engineer will not have any issues getting another job.
- belenos46 7y ago
  I dunno; if they're like most developers I know, they'll end up picking up a hodgepodge of skills that they missed in the bootcamp, which will let them plump out their resume. If they can't figure out how to write their resume after they've had the experience, I don't feel too bad for them.
- vanadium 7y ago
  Accessibility consulting pays bonkers money these days due to the demand; even the a11y places like Deque and Usablenet are being asked for on-site a11y practitioners and they can’t find enough of them to refer companies to.
- the8472 7y ago
  Shouldn't those skills generalize to UX/QA?
- Machado117 7y ago
  In the worst case the same place other bootcamp graduates get their jobs.
- jerf 7y ago
  "a boot camp is a perfect bootstrap. (I'd still say there's things yet to learn, but when isn't that true?)"
logfromblammo 7y ago
> "An accessibility engineer... is going to be greatly handicapped if...." Here comes the lawsuit-targeting algorithm.

ravenstine 7y ago

Hiring specialists should be more of a thing, rather than expecting engineers to be competent at every nuance of building web applications.

DanBC 7y ago
Complying with laws that have been around about as long as the web isn't some nuance.
- LanceH 7y ago
  There is no law requiring anything of the sort by an individual developer.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    This is technically correct, but developers often code websites and applications facing the public, at which point you do come under the auspices of US case law (since websites are not explicitly covered by ADA), and UK legislation, to start with a few jurisdictions.
    - LanceH 7y ago
      Does every developer face the law? Or just the companies putting material out there? This really isn't a matter for developers to take on themselves. It is a matter of product development and feature selection. So many people on here talking like they just "just do it right" and it's no more difficult to make the site accessible than it is to make the site at all. It is something which needs to planned an budgeted for. It can get expensive. Especially when the development of the site is speculative and you don't know beforehand what it is going to look like in. Iterating over works in progress and maintaining accessibility along the way can be a real pain.
      - ravenstine 7y ago
        If it was as easy as everyone says, then most websites wouldn't be downright crap when it comes to accessibility. Most engineers are either too incompetent to implement it or it's too hard, or both. It's probably a mix of both. Either way, just wishing that people just do a better job just isn't going to happen. Paying people to do one job really well is probably a better way forward. Hell, I can take the argument against this and apply it to things like QA. Why exactly can't engineers just do what QA would do themselves? Why not make all engineers devops? After all, shouldn't they understand the entire system from end to end? The answer is they can't, because the more skills you expect an individual to have, the more likely they're going to suck at everything they do.

vanadium 7y ago

You might want to put her on a certification track (of which there are legit and respected certs out there now). Gomez v GNC highlighted the need for someone that could be pointed to as an actual expert on Accessibility on staff. IAAP Certification Tracks: https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/certification https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/certification Gomez v. GNC: https://www.levelaccess.com/federal-court-decision-gomez-v-gnc-highlights-importance-choosing-experienced-accessibility-expert/ https://www.levelaccess.com/federal-court-decision-gomez-v-g...