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Being that it sounds like a worthwhile project I can see about getting involved in some manner. I have to take a look at the models in greater detail and think

Being that it sounds like a worthwhile project I can see about getting involved in some manner. I have to take a look at the models in greater detail and think about it a bit. My general thinking at the moment is that the design might have to undergo substantial changes in order to optimize for manufacturing cost. This is also one of the reasons for which you don't jump into making production tooling right away, you have to go through a few iterations before you actually know what you want to build in quantity, even if that is a few dozen units. A smart approach would create "production safe" tooling, meaning, tooling that can adapt to a reasonable degree to design changes without requiring completely new tooling design. This process requires close communication between design and manufacturing. I'll visit their forum as soon as I have some time to dig in. Regarding machines like Shapeoko. These are very nice and make a lot of sense for the right type of work. We have Haas CNC equipment. Once you start to worry about tolerances, finish, speed, repeatability and other factors there is no substitute for 7,000 lbs of industry-standard machinery.

justinclift 7y ago
> Regarding machines like Shapeoko. These are very nice and make a lot of sense for the right type of work. Once you start to worry about tolerances, finish, speed, repeatability and other factors there is no substitute for 7,000 lbs of industry-standard machinery. Oh no doubt at all. My PoV there is that a person with adequate clue can upgrade and calibrate a Shapeoko3 to be suitable for projects like this. Would it take tonnes of time and effort... sure. Would it be a production run...? Super unlikely. :) It's the kind of thing that - for a project like this - you'd do it for an amputee friend, relative, etc. eg doable, with the right motivation
- robomartin 7y ago
  I have to admit not having any time on a Shapeoko (or any other tabletop router for that matter). I've always had access to manual or CNC industrial grade machines. I've seen some impressive work done on Shapeoko and other small machines. While this is possible, the issues are always the same: tolerances, repeatability, finish and tooling. Without the mass to dampen vibrations it is impossible to produce smooth and accurate cuts. It is enough that aluminum is like rubber at cutting pressures. Now we add a machine with a structure, materials and mechanics that can visibly deflect a few thousands with finger pressure and the end result is predictable. That's not to say they are not useful. They are. Definitely. For the right kind of part and project they are fantastic. At $1,000 to $2,000 they are hard to beat. Frankly, the right way to use something like a Shapeoko for a project like this is to design the parts for the process. In other words, knowing about the limitations of the machine, design parts that will fit these constraints in the first place. That said, a machine like this is a million times better than a Shapeoko could ever be, no matter how much it might be modified. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Allen-Bradley-CNC-Control-42-x9-Table/143227630306?hash=item21590832e2:g:LEkAAOSwpWRcwN~T https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Al... I owned several similar machines --all purchased used for $1,500 to about $5,000 max-- before I could afford to buy my first $100K VMC (vertical machining center). These "knee mills" as they are known, can make quality parts all day long with accuracy and excellent finish. They can make nearly anything you care to throw at them. I still have one today (sometimes it's easier to work on a part on one of these than to fire-up a large machine for a few cuts). They also fit very well in a garage workshop.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    > Frankly, the right way to use something like a Shapeoko for a project like this is to design the parts for the process. Definitely agreed. :) > https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Al.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Al.... Heh Heh Heh It'd be tempting to get one of those, then convert it to CNC. But... other priorities atm. For my stuff, the tolerances of a Shapeoko are fine. For now. :)
    - robomartin 7y ago
      BTW, the eBay link I posted is, in fact, a real ready-to-go industrial CNC machine for $3,900. My Bridgeport, which is similar, weighs 2,200 lbs. this one is a bit heavier but still just fine for a garage shop. I’ve had 7,000 lb machines in my garage. Seriously, I’d buy one of these any time over a router, for the money there is no comparison. Let’s put it this way: The x axis leadscrew alone is worth as much as a Shapeoko.
      - justinclift 7y ago
        No worries. :) No garage here, so limited options (thus the Shapeoko, etc). :( Btw, are you in contact with Elliot (etc) from the Open-Source Leg place? If not, there's a response to your query, with initial contact details. :)
        robomartin 7y ago
        Thanks for making me aware of the response. I’ll go check it out and see if I can help in any way.

justinclift 7y ago

> Regarding machines like Shapeoko. These are very nice and make a lot of sense for the right type of work. Once you start to worry about tolerances, finish, speed, repeatability and other factors there is no substitute for 7,000 lbs of industry-standard machinery. Oh no doubt at all. My PoV there is that a person with adequate clue can upgrade and calibrate a Shapeoko3 to be suitable for projects like this. Would it take tonnes of time and effort... sure. Would it be a production run...? Super unlikely. :) It's the kind of thing that - for a project like this - you'd do it for an amputee friend, relative, etc. eg doable, with the right motivation

robomartin 7y ago
I have to admit not having any time on a Shapeoko (or any other tabletop router for that matter). I've always had access to manual or CNC industrial grade machines. I've seen some impressive work done on Shapeoko and other small machines. While this is possible, the issues are always the same: tolerances, repeatability, finish and tooling. Without the mass to dampen vibrations it is impossible to produce smooth and accurate cuts. It is enough that aluminum is like rubber at cutting pressures. Now we add a machine with a structure, materials and mechanics that can visibly deflect a few thousands with finger pressure and the end result is predictable. That's not to say they are not useful. They are. Definitely. For the right kind of part and project they are fantastic. At $1,000 to $2,000 they are hard to beat. Frankly, the right way to use something like a Shapeoko for a project like this is to design the parts for the process. In other words, knowing about the limitations of the machine, design parts that will fit these constraints in the first place. That said, a machine like this is a million times better than a Shapeoko could ever be, no matter how much it might be modified. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Allen-Bradley-CNC-Control-42-x9-Table/143227630306?hash=item21590832e2:g:LEkAAOSwpWRcwN~T https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Al... I owned several similar machines --all purchased used for $1,500 to about $5,000 max-- before I could afford to buy my first $100K VMC (vertical machining center). These "knee mills" as they are known, can make quality parts all day long with accuracy and excellent finish. They can make nearly anything you care to throw at them. I still have one today (sometimes it's easier to work on a part on one of these than to fire-up a large machine for a few cuts). They also fit very well in a garage workshop.
- justinclift 7y ago
  > Frankly, the right way to use something like a Shapeoko for a project like this is to design the parts for the process. Definitely agreed. :) > https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Al.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAGUN-FTV-1-VERTICAL-KNEE-MILL-w-Al.... Heh Heh Heh It'd be tempting to get one of those, then convert it to CNC. But... other priorities atm. For my stuff, the tolerances of a Shapeoko are fine. For now. :)
  - robomartin 7y ago
    BTW, the eBay link I posted is, in fact, a real ready-to-go industrial CNC machine for $3,900. My Bridgeport, which is similar, weighs 2,200 lbs. this one is a bit heavier but still just fine for a garage shop. I’ve had 7,000 lb machines in my garage. Seriously, I’d buy one of these any time over a router, for the money there is no comparison. Let’s put it this way: The x axis leadscrew alone is worth as much as a Shapeoko.
    - justinclift 7y ago
      No worries. :) No garage here, so limited options (thus the Shapeoko, etc). :( Btw, are you in contact with Elliot (etc) from the Open-Source Leg place? If not, there's a response to your query, with initial contact details. :)
      - robomartin 7y ago
        Thanks for making me aware of the response. I’ll go check it out and see if I can help in any way.