8 ms·

You ever read Upton Sinclair's the jungle? It's a tale as old as time. Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws. Th

You ever read Upton Sinclair's the jungle? It's a tale as old as time. Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws. This is a major reason the media works this way, it's part of American democracy.

bagacrap 7y ago
There's a key difference there: the practices described in the jungle directly affected the population at large, by way of the food they ate. The kind of exposé in tfa requires the masses to have collective empathy.
- memmcgee 7y ago
  The population at large is heavily affected by Facebook as well.
- officialchicken 7y ago
  While "Mary had a little lamb" may be the part everyone remembers - and is THE REASON why the FDA was founded - the book spends more time discussing exploiting labor (unions and busting them); the role of banks in predatory housing; the role of transportation networks in segregation; and all kinds of issues related to immigration, education, and public health.
sharkmerry 7y ago
I believe Sinclair's goal with the jungle was to expose the working condition for the benefit of the workers but the takeaway was how disgusting our food was
- mortenjorck 7y ago
  In the author's own words: "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach."
president 7y ago
> Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws. This just doesn't work in today's world. If it did, Equifax wouldn't be thriving the way it still does today.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  A good example. Another is FB and their practices with privacy and user data.
- bksenior 7y ago
  The effectiveness of types of persuasion change with time. Eventually there will be something that moves people if it becomes important enough.
  - emn13 7y ago
    Relying on congress to respond to public issues is fundamentally weaker now, and weakening by the year due to the duopoly in politics: any issue one side takes up is immediately something that - if possible - is criticized and turned into a point of differentiation; and media are growing into that too (online media already are highly polarized). Whatever small forces of reasonable consensus remain aren't enough to address issues like this: because let's be honest, it's not really all that clear exactly what the problem is (there are lots of aspects), how serious it is, let alone how to address (if that's even possible). You're not going to get proper consensus overnight on an issue like that in the best of times, and it's hopeless now. At best - and I don't think even that's likely - you'll see some hyper-targeted no worker-abuse kind of laws, but nothing addressing the underlying dynamic that creates the situation, and something that a creative business is likely to be able to route around. Essentially a base-pleasing legislative patch that punts the problem until it reemerges. Given the topic that's only going to happen if the democrats win both houses.
    - crooked-v 7y ago
      > any issue one side takes up is immediately something that - if possible - is criticized and turned into a point of differentiation This kind of "bothsame" response willfully overlooks that one party has gone to substantial lengths to offer compromises on bills, appointees, and policy goals, while the other very much hasn't.
revscat 7y ago
> Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws This will not happen so long as libertarians and Confederates have political power.
dang 7y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20223437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20223437.
pmoriarty 7y ago
More apropos to this age is not the political climate in which Sinclair's "The Jungle" led to pro-consumer reforms, but rather Jack London's "The Iron Heel"[1], wherein when challenged, one of the captains of industry spoke these prophetic words: "This, then, is our answer. We have no words to waste on you. When you reach out your vaunted strong hands for our palaces and purpled ease, we will show you what strength is. In roar of shell and shrapnel and in whine of machine-guns will our answer be couched. We will grind you revolutionists down under our heel, and we shall walk upon your faces. The world is ours, we are its lords, and ours it shall remain. As for the host of labor, it has been in the dirt since history began, and I read history aright. And in the dirt it shall remain so long as I and mine and those that come after us have the power. There is the word. It is the king of words--Power. Not God, not Mammon, but Power. Pour it over your tongue till it tingles with it. Power." [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Heel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Heel

bagacrap 7y ago

There's a key difference there: the practices described in the jungle directly affected the population at large, by way of the food they ate. The kind of exposé in tfa requires the masses to have collective empathy.

memmcgee 7y ago
The population at large is heavily affected by Facebook as well.
officialchicken 7y ago
While "Mary had a little lamb" may be the part everyone remembers - and is THE REASON why the FDA was founded - the book spends more time discussing exploiting labor (unions and busting them); the role of banks in predatory housing; the role of transportation networks in segregation; and all kinds of issues related to immigration, education, and public health.

sharkmerry 7y ago

I believe Sinclair's goal with the jungle was to expose the working condition for the benefit of the workers but the takeaway was how disgusting our food was

mortenjorck 7y ago
In the author's own words: "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach."

president 7y ago

> Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws. This just doesn't work in today's world. If it did, Equifax wouldn't be thriving the way it still does today.

lostlogin 7y ago
A good example. Another is FB and their practices with privacy and user data.
bksenior 7y ago
The effectiveness of types of persuasion change with time. Eventually there will be something that moves people if it becomes important enough.
- emn13 7y ago
  Relying on congress to respond to public issues is fundamentally weaker now, and weakening by the year due to the duopoly in politics: any issue one side takes up is immediately something that - if possible - is criticized and turned into a point of differentiation; and media are growing into that too (online media already are highly polarized). Whatever small forces of reasonable consensus remain aren't enough to address issues like this: because let's be honest, it's not really all that clear exactly what the problem is (there are lots of aspects), how serious it is, let alone how to address (if that's even possible). You're not going to get proper consensus overnight on an issue like that in the best of times, and it's hopeless now. At best - and I don't think even that's likely - you'll see some hyper-targeted no worker-abuse kind of laws, but nothing addressing the underlying dynamic that creates the situation, and something that a creative business is likely to be able to route around. Essentially a base-pleasing legislative patch that punts the problem until it reemerges. Given the topic that's only going to happen if the democrats win both houses.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    > any issue one side takes up is immediately something that - if possible - is criticized and turned into a point of differentiation This kind of "bothsame" response willfully overlooks that one party has gone to substantial lengths to offer compromises on bills, appointees, and policy goals, while the other very much hasn't.

revscat 7y ago

> Just publicly shame the company and ultimately they change or congress passes laws This will not happen so long as libertarians and Confederates have political power.

dang 7y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20223437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20223437.

pmoriarty 7y ago

More apropos to this age is not the political climate in which Sinclair's "The Jungle" led to pro-consumer reforms, but rather Jack London's "The Iron Heel"[1], wherein when challenged, one of the captains of industry spoke these prophetic words: "This, then, is our answer. We have no words to waste on you. When you reach out your vaunted strong hands for our palaces and purpled ease, we will show you what strength is. In roar of shell and shrapnel and in whine of machine-guns will our answer be couched. We will grind you revolutionists down under our heel, and we shall walk upon your faces. The world is ours, we are its lords, and ours it shall remain. As for the host of labor, it has been in the dirt since history began, and I read history aright. And in the dirt it shall remain so long as I and mine and those that come after us have the power. There is the word. It is the king of words--Power. Not God, not Mammon, but Power. Pour it over your tongue till it tingles with it. Power." [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Heel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Heel