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If comma.ai had killed someone while illegally testing their self driving cars I would expect someone to go to jail. If Tesla and Uber are following the laws re

by tedivm 7y ago

If comma.ai had killed someone while illegally testing their self driving cars I would expect someone to go to jail. If Tesla and Uber are following the laws regarding testing then they probably wouldn't be held liable. I do think there's a huge double standard where companies get treated better than individuals, but I also think that this guy ignored enough regulations regarding construction that he should definitely be held liable for this death.

ghaff 7y ago
Well, you can't put corporations in jail though you can most certainly fine them. Passing through criminal liabilities can circumvent one of the purposes of corporations (though those should properly apply in extreme cases). I expect that a lot of people here would prefer not to be personally liable because some bug they were responsible for caused a significant financial loss much less an injury even though they worked for a company. If you are an individual, you should probably set up a corporate structure and take out insurance.
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- tedivm 7y ago
  You're confusing two very different issues- civil and criminal liability. Corporations protect their shareholders and officers from a variety of civil liability claims, as the corporation itself takes on that responsibility. Criminal liability does not get shielded by a corporation. Your example about a software bug is a great one- that would clearly be a civil issue in most cases, but in the case that the law was broken in the process (say, a car company explicitly programs their vehicles to have lower emissions during testing than they do in real world scenarios) then you should expect some jailtime[1]. So going back to my example- if people follow the law but kill someone during testing (such as with Uber) then they probably shouldn't be held criminally liable, but if they are breaking the law (like comma.ai did) and kill someone as a result I would be shocked if they weren't held criminally liable. 1. https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743308/volkswagen-oliver-schmidt-sentence-emissions-scandal-prison https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743308/volkswagen-olive...
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by tedivm 7y ago

ghaff 7y ago

Well, you can't put corporations in jail though you can most certainly fine them. Passing through criminal liabilities can circumvent one of the purposes of corporations (though those should properly apply in extreme cases). I expect that a lot of people here would prefer not to be personally liable because some bug they were responsible for caused a significant financial loss much less an injury even though they worked for a company. If you are an individual, you should probably set up a corporate structure and take out insurance.

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tedivm 7y ago
You're confusing two very different issues- civil and criminal liability. Corporations protect their shareholders and officers from a variety of civil liability claims, as the corporation itself takes on that responsibility. Criminal liability does not get shielded by a corporation. Your example about a software bug is a great one- that would clearly be a civil issue in most cases, but in the case that the law was broken in the process (say, a car company explicitly programs their vehicles to have lower emissions during testing than they do in real world scenarios) then you should expect some jailtime[1]. So going back to my example- if people follow the law but kill someone during testing (such as with Uber) then they probably shouldn't be held criminally liable, but if they are breaking the law (like comma.ai did) and kill someone as a result I would be shocked if they weren't held criminally liable. 1. https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743308/volkswagen-oliver-schmidt-sentence-emissions-scandal-prison https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743308/volkswagen-olive...
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