4 ms·

Sure. Honestly, how much utility does 2 day shipping really have? Is it really enough to justify the increased emissions of flying a package across the country

Sure. Honestly, how much utility does 2 day shipping really have? Is it really enough to justify the increased emissions of flying a package across the country instead of using a more efficient method? Of course that's not really Amazon's problem. We really need more reasonable taxes on fossil fuels that make it cost-prohibitive for Amazon to rely on air shipping.

justaguyhere 7y ago
We really need more reasonable taxes on fossil fuels that make it cost-prohibitive And more awareness among consumers - how often do we need same day/next day delivery? I bet not that often It would be nice for consumers to support local businesses instead of always buying from mega corporations...
- alanbernstein 7y ago
  I'm well aware of the environmental costs of these decisions. For a while, I avoided online shopping, for a number of reasons. One day, a few years ago, I drove to four or five different stores in my city to try to find some specific hardware product, where physical fit was important. I did not find it. Then I searched online, and found an answered buyer question that made it clear that the thing would work for me. After this, my online shopping ramped up a lot. What's worse? 45 minutes of driving an old car, or .01% of the freight volume of an 18-wheeler over hundreds of miles?
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  No, awareness doesn't work. We need to stop pretending that combating climate change on an individual level is meaningful. It's a feelgood measure that will never move the needle. We must institute society-wide changes that systemically remove greenhouse gas creating activities from our lives whether we're aware of them or not.
JoshTriplett 7y ago
> Honestly, how much utility does 2 day shipping really have? Very much so. It's a big factor in enabling "we don't have to own a car at all, because we can get anything we need shipped to us". 2-day shipping is the slow case these days, and if it's in a local warehouse you can expect same-day or next-day. (And in some cities you can get 2-hour delivery of fresh items.) If you're going to fairly compare the emissions involved in package delivery, you'd need to take increased car usage into account, among many other things. You can also safely assume that the cost of air freight is amortized across a large number of packages. And in general, Amazon tries to predict what will be needed in advance, so that they can ship it to a local warehouse via slower methods. The planes are, effectively, for the case where they didn't anticipate demand and it's too expensive an item to keep that much distributed inventory of.
- btrettel 7y ago
  > Very much so. It's a big factor in enabling "we don't have to own a car at all, because we can get anything we need shipped to us". 2-day shipping is the slow case these days, and if it's in a local warehouse you can expect same-day or next-day. (And in some cities you can get 2-hour delivery of fresh items.) Maybe, but my own experience is a counterexample. I'm a bike commuter who doesn't own a car, and I cancelled Prime because I found Prime's shipping to be unreliable at best. (Late deliveries, mostly.) If I need to order something I'll wait until I meet the minimum for free shipping or pay extra for shipping. Online shopping is the game changer, not Prime, as far as I'm concerned.
  - jschwartzi 7y ago
    I have everything delivered to a locker that's 5 minutes away from me, and I work from home. Prime has been a big factor in me not driving 30 miles every time I need to buy a one-off part for some project I'm doing for work. Since I started using Amazon it's gotten really hard for me to justify driving to a place like Fry's because they almost never have exactly what I need, and usually what they do have is hot garbage. The resellers on Amazon frequently stock exactly what I need at pretty good prices and I can usually get it same day or next day. And if I need a technical book or something I usually buy it off Amazon too because other than maybe the university library(10 miles away) there's nobody who stocks the kind of books I need to do my job. Most of the stuff I get from Amazon I can probably get from Digikey or Mouser as well. I usually only order from Digikey when I need a very specific part. Amazon is where I order things like bulk LEDs, resistors, solderable breadboards, wire, and other consumables. And usually they have a great selection of tools as well.
  - JoshTriplett 7y ago
    > I cancelled Prime because I found Prime's shipping to be unreliable at best. (Late deliveries, mostly.) I'm curious, are you located near one of Amazon's primary areas (namely, those areas where they offer Prime Now 2-hour delivery)? I get the distinct impression that the service quality is very different depending on if you're in such an area or not.

justaguyhere 7y ago

We really need more reasonable taxes on fossil fuels that make it cost-prohibitive And more awareness among consumers - how often do we need same day/next day delivery? I bet not that often It would be nice for consumers to support local businesses instead of always buying from mega corporations...

alanbernstein 7y ago
I'm well aware of the environmental costs of these decisions. For a while, I avoided online shopping, for a number of reasons. One day, a few years ago, I drove to four or five different stores in my city to try to find some specific hardware product, where physical fit was important. I did not find it. Then I searched online, and found an answered buyer question that made it clear that the thing would work for me. After this, my online shopping ramped up a lot. What's worse? 45 minutes of driving an old car, or .01% of the freight volume of an 18-wheeler over hundreds of miles?
0xffff2 7y ago
No, awareness doesn't work. We need to stop pretending that combating climate change on an individual level is meaningful. It's a feelgood measure that will never move the needle. We must institute society-wide changes that systemically remove greenhouse gas creating activities from our lives whether we're aware of them or not.

JoshTriplett 7y ago

> Honestly, how much utility does 2 day shipping really have? Very much so. It's a big factor in enabling "we don't have to own a car at all, because we can get anything we need shipped to us". 2-day shipping is the slow case these days, and if it's in a local warehouse you can expect same-day or next-day. (And in some cities you can get 2-hour delivery of fresh items.) If you're going to fairly compare the emissions involved in package delivery, you'd need to take increased car usage into account, among many other things. You can also safely assume that the cost of air freight is amortized across a large number of packages. And in general, Amazon tries to predict what will be needed in advance, so that they can ship it to a local warehouse via slower methods. The planes are, effectively, for the case where they didn't anticipate demand and it's too expensive an item to keep that much distributed inventory of.

btrettel 7y ago
> Very much so. It's a big factor in enabling "we don't have to own a car at all, because we can get anything we need shipped to us". 2-day shipping is the slow case these days, and if it's in a local warehouse you can expect same-day or next-day. (And in some cities you can get 2-hour delivery of fresh items.) Maybe, but my own experience is a counterexample. I'm a bike commuter who doesn't own a car, and I cancelled Prime because I found Prime's shipping to be unreliable at best. (Late deliveries, mostly.) If I need to order something I'll wait until I meet the minimum for free shipping or pay extra for shipping. Online shopping is the game changer, not Prime, as far as I'm concerned.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  I have everything delivered to a locker that's 5 minutes away from me, and I work from home. Prime has been a big factor in me not driving 30 miles every time I need to buy a one-off part for some project I'm doing for work. Since I started using Amazon it's gotten really hard for me to justify driving to a place like Fry's because they almost never have exactly what I need, and usually what they do have is hot garbage. The resellers on Amazon frequently stock exactly what I need at pretty good prices and I can usually get it same day or next day. And if I need a technical book or something I usually buy it off Amazon too because other than maybe the university library(10 miles away) there's nobody who stocks the kind of books I need to do my job. Most of the stuff I get from Amazon I can probably get from Digikey or Mouser as well. I usually only order from Digikey when I need a very specific part. Amazon is where I order things like bulk LEDs, resistors, solderable breadboards, wire, and other consumables. And usually they have a great selection of tools as well.
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  > I cancelled Prime because I found Prime's shipping to be unreliable at best. (Late deliveries, mostly.) I'm curious, are you located near one of Amazon's primary areas (namely, those areas where they offer Prime Now 2-hour delivery)? I get the distinct impression that the service quality is very different depending on if you're in such an area or not.