5 ms·

This is the sole reason why I would never think about "owning" (if you can call it that) a Tesla.

naikrovek 7y ago
Do you think you "own" the car you drive now? You don't. Not since cars came with any computers at all has anyone fully owned their vehicle. I don't see a problem with this, in most cases, and I only sort of understand why people get upset about it. It's simple and easy (and fully legal in most states) to just design and build your own vehicle to your own specifications, provided you meet minimum requirements regarding road worthiness. You certainly can truly own your own commercially available car if you're willing to hire a lawyer, negotiate, and pay for a license that includes whatever it is that crosses the threshold into whatever a given person considers true ownership. And I can tell you immediately that this license will cost you at least 50 times the list price of that vehicle, will not be a transferable license, and you will not be allowed to sublicense it. It's not that you can't own your car, it's that no one is willing to pay for true ownership, because it is entirely impractical and unimportant to fully own a car in today's world.
- thatcat 7y ago
  An ECU is not typically remotely controlled and updated. You can also replace an ECU, to one with more control so that you can fine tune performance. For cars that do have that feature, I doubt hiring lawyers will change anything. No one is obligated to sell you anything.
  - naikrovek 7y ago
    You can't adjust it. If you can, you can't see the code, you can only modify data already compiled in.
    - thatcat 7y ago
      Yea maybe you're right and you can only partially modify it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - arthur_pryor 7y ago
      hearsay from my car enthusiast friends and this cursory internet search contradict that claim. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=modify+ECU&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=modify+ECU&t=ffab&ia=web
    - freeone3000 7y ago
      You can swap out the entire thing if you want and do a reflash. It's not a beginner job but it's also not impossible, or illegal (if it still meets emissions, but that's on you)
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      You can replace the entire thing with a compatible and programmable module, if people care enough to develop one. There are now cars from the 80s that are modern enough to have computers, but old enough that the ECUs are starting to deteriorate, and still appreciated enough that people repair or replace them. Example: (not an endorsement and I have no experience with this product) http://roguetuning.com/rogue_tuning_ecu http://roguetuning.com/rogue_tuning_ecu
- arthur_pryor 7y ago
  that is one point of view. another point of view is that freedom to tinker and repair shouldn't be limited to the super-rich, and that what you're describing isn't practical for the vast majority of the population. i have exactly zero problems with society collectively pushing for the right to repair against greedy companies who'd rather not give it. which is to say, we should legislate a strong right to repair, so that denying it is clearly illegal, so that we can take companies to task using something other than the invisible hand of the market.
- userbinator 7y ago
  I happen to own a car without any computer control, and for which the parts for the engine and drivetrain are cheap and readily available with a large aftermarket that's existed for many decades. It might not be the safest nor very environmentally friendly, but to me the ease of repair, simplicity, and freedom are what lead me to make that choice. If EVs were as "ownable" and came without the privacy-invading phone-home spyware as well as had a more sensible UI, I'd consider getting one for trips around town. Another comment here compared Tesla to Apple, and I think that's a great comparison. I wonder if there's a strong correlation between users who love/hate Apple products and the same opinions of Tesla?
  - misterprime 7y ago
    Can I ask which car that is?
    - userbinator 7y ago
      72 Caprice, mild tune 400, 700R4 semi-automatic valvebody.

Do you think you "own" the car you drive now? You don't. Not since cars came with any computers at all has anyone fully owned their vehicle. I don't see a problem with this, in most cases, and I only sort of understand why people get upset about it. It's simple and easy (and fully legal in most states) to just design and build your own vehicle to your own specifications, provided you meet minimum requirements regarding road worthiness. You certainly can truly own your own commercially available car if you're willing to hire a lawyer, negotiate, and pay for a license that includes whatever it is that crosses the threshold into whatever a given person considers true ownership. And I can tell you immediately that this license will cost you at least 50 times the list price of that vehicle, will not be a transferable license, and you will not be allowed to sublicense it. It's not that you can't own your car, it's that no one is willing to pay for true ownership, because it is entirely impractical and unimportant to fully own a car in today's world.

thatcat 7y ago
An ECU is not typically remotely controlled and updated. You can also replace an ECU, to one with more control so that you can fine tune performance. For cars that do have that feature, I doubt hiring lawyers will change anything. No one is obligated to sell you anything.
- naikrovek 7y ago
  You can't adjust it. If you can, you can't see the code, you can only modify data already compiled in.
  - thatcat 7y ago
    Yea maybe you're right and you can only partially modify it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - arthur_pryor 7y ago
    hearsay from my car enthusiast friends and this cursory internet search contradict that claim. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=modify+ECU&t=ffab&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=modify+ECU&t=ffab&ia=web
  - freeone3000 7y ago
    You can swap out the entire thing if you want and do a reflash. It's not a beginner job but it's also not impossible, or illegal (if it still meets emissions, but that's on you)
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    You can replace the entire thing with a compatible and programmable module, if people care enough to develop one. There are now cars from the 80s that are modern enough to have computers, but old enough that the ECUs are starting to deteriorate, and still appreciated enough that people repair or replace them. Example: (not an endorsement and I have no experience with this product) http://roguetuning.com/rogue_tuning_ecu http://roguetuning.com/rogue_tuning_ecu
arthur_pryor 7y ago
that is one point of view. another point of view is that freedom to tinker and repair shouldn't be limited to the super-rich, and that what you're describing isn't practical for the vast majority of the population. i have exactly zero problems with society collectively pushing for the right to repair against greedy companies who'd rather not give it. which is to say, we should legislate a strong right to repair, so that denying it is clearly illegal, so that we can take companies to task using something other than the invisible hand of the market.
userbinator 7y ago
I happen to own a car without any computer control, and for which the parts for the engine and drivetrain are cheap and readily available with a large aftermarket that's existed for many decades. It might not be the safest nor very environmentally friendly, but to me the ease of repair, simplicity, and freedom are what lead me to make that choice. If EVs were as "ownable" and came without the privacy-invading phone-home spyware as well as had a more sensible UI, I'd consider getting one for trips around town. Another comment here compared Tesla to Apple, and I think that's a great comparison. I wonder if there's a strong correlation between users who love/hate Apple products and the same opinions of Tesla?
- misterprime 7y ago
  Can I ask which car that is?
  - userbinator 7y ago
    72 Caprice, mild tune 400, 700R4 semi-automatic valvebody.