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How about Guantanamo? Is that a concentration camp? And what about those border facilities detaining immigrants? What's happening inside there? Why eliminating

by avanti 7y ago

How about Guantanamo? Is that a concentration camp? And what about those border facilities detaining immigrants? What's happening inside there? Why eliminating terrorism justifies bombarding a country most of innocent civilians? Our views are always biased by what we think is right. However there's no absolute right or wrong, only stories planted in our minds.

ng12 7y ago
I don't think you'll find many on HN supporting Guantanamo so the point is kind of moot.
- xmly 7y ago
  Then do something. Fight with the evil which is so close.
fourier_mode 7y ago
Although I don't support the existence of a detention camp controlled by any nation, the detention camps meant for terrorists are at way higher moral grounds, than someone adhering to a particular ideology.
ryanmarsh 7y ago
People at the border facilities are encouraged to leave back to their home country and to use the US Immigration system properly. I don't know much about Guantanamo. Who is currently held there? I've read they recently expanded the facilities but I'm not aware of new arrivals.
- xmly 7y ago
  Guantanamo will be used as the detention facility for illegal immigrants pretty soon based on the news.
  - fourier_mode 7y ago
    Reference?
    - xmly 7y ago
      US immigration officials looking at housing migrant children at Guantánamo Bay, report says https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/guantanamo-bay-migrant-children-us-immigration-trump-border-a8883511.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
- fourier_mode 7y ago
  Yes, Obama administration was working to bring down its operation. But after the arrival of Trump in the office, he has vouched to bring it back it in significance during its golden 2002-7 era. There are around 40 detainees there now.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
smacke 7y ago
All those things you mentioned are a) bad and b) off topic. I suggest you create a new post to discuss those. The right vs wrong question seems straightforward. If the people in these concentration camps are suffering, then it is wrong. If they are unable to speak about whether they are suffering, then that is also wrong. It's only a "story planted in [your] mind" until it happens to you.
- avanti 7y ago
  Let's talk about the current topic. I agree that if people are suffering, then it's probably wrong (I say "probably" because some people need to endure "suffering" to improve the overall happiness of other people. Think about Psychiatric hospital). But our knowledge of the suffering is from media, and media can present biased view for whatever reason. And we decide to believe in that media because we share some value with it. So seeing this news from BBC and immediately draws conclusion seems quite rash to me. The story between Uyghurs and Han Chinese is a complicated one. It dates back thousands of years. And there's human thinking fallacy involved here (I mentioned it in another reply).
  - smacke 7y ago
    Based on the footage, and even in spite of the agenda made clear from the interviewer's line of questions, it seems difficult to deny many aspects of the BBC reporting. These institutions do exist, and are targeted at the Uyghur minority. My current internal bias suggests that enrollees at these institutions would be punished for expressing anything but positivity regarding their situation. When one group of humans has power over another, history and even academic exercises [1] suggest that things get ugly. Much of the western world is influenced by Kantian ethics [2], of which a central tenant is that the end (potentially greater societal stability, in this case) is not justified by the means. This system of thought does not seem to hold much sway by the CCP, and I believe many disagreements can be traced back to this point. [1] Google "Stanford Prison Experiment" [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantian_ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantian_ethics
    - avanti 7y ago

by avanti 7y ago

ng12 7y ago

I don't think you'll find many on HN supporting Guantanamo so the point is kind of moot.

xmly 7y ago
Then do something. Fight with the evil which is so close.

fourier_mode 7y ago

Although I don't support the existence of a detention camp controlled by any nation, the detention camps meant for terrorists are at way higher moral grounds, than someone adhering to a particular ideology.

ryanmarsh 7y ago

People at the border facilities are encouraged to leave back to their home country and to use the US Immigration system properly. I don't know much about Guantanamo. Who is currently held there? I've read they recently expanded the facilities but I'm not aware of new arrivals.

xmly 7y ago
Guantanamo will be used as the detention facility for illegal immigrants pretty soon based on the news.
- fourier_mode 7y ago
  Reference?
  - xmly 7y ago
    US immigration officials looking at housing migrant children at Guantánamo Bay, report says https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/guantanamo-bay-migrant-children-us-immigration-trump-border-a8883511.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
fourier_mode 7y ago
Yes, Obama administration was working to bring down its operation. But after the arrival of Trump in the office, he has vouched to bring it back it in significance during its golden 2002-7 era. There are around 40 detainees there now.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

smacke 7y ago

All those things you mentioned are a) bad and b) off topic. I suggest you create a new post to discuss those. The right vs wrong question seems straightforward. If the people in these concentration camps are suffering, then it is wrong. If they are unable to speak about whether they are suffering, then that is also wrong. It's only a "story planted in [your] mind" until it happens to you.

avanti 7y ago
Let's talk about the current topic. I agree that if people are suffering, then it's probably wrong (I say "probably" because some people need to endure "suffering" to improve the overall happiness of other people. Think about Psychiatric hospital). But our knowledge of the suffering is from media, and media can present biased view for whatever reason. And we decide to believe in that media because we share some value with it. So seeing this news from BBC and immediately draws conclusion seems quite rash to me. The story between Uyghurs and Han Chinese is a complicated one. It dates back thousands of years. And there's human thinking fallacy involved here (I mentioned it in another reply).
- smacke 7y ago
  Based on the footage, and even in spite of the agenda made clear from the interviewer's line of questions, it seems difficult to deny many aspects of the BBC reporting. These institutions do exist, and are targeted at the Uyghur minority. My current internal bias suggests that enrollees at these institutions would be punished for expressing anything but positivity regarding their situation. When one group of humans has power over another, history and even academic exercises [1] suggest that things get ugly. Much of the western world is influenced by Kantian ethics [2], of which a central tenant is that the end (potentially greater societal stability, in this case) is not justified by the means. This system of thought does not seem to hold much sway by the CCP, and I believe many disagreements can be traced back to this point. [1] Google "Stanford Prison Experiment" [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantian_ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantian_ethics
  - avanti 7y ago